The start of something big. Frame off restoration

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

I picked up the dash tonight after 5 hours under vacuum. In order to get it home without accidentally chipping / peeling the veneer, we taped the boards around the dash in place for the trip home.

At the back of the glove box you can see where just a little glue has seeped into the edge between the lid and the frame, the wax in here lets the glue peal right off. I scribed as deep a line as i could from behind with a razor blade between the two pieces.

I then trimmed with a razorblade as much excess material as I could from the edges, so that when handling the dash I would not catch a piece of loose veneer and damage it before it's finished. On this side you can see the veneer tape used to hold together the bookmatched pieces prior to adhering the veneer to the dash.

Using the lines that were visible with the dash flipped over, I finished cutting out the glove box door. I'll have to use more or less the same technique to cut out all the other holes as well, slowly and carefully. Once all the holes are cut out, I'll then go around the edges with sandpaper and round out and smooth out all the transitions, so that there's nothing that can catch and tear.

To remove the veneer tape, you need to apply water. I used a sponge to get the tape saturated so that it would pull away. The water will cause some warpage of the veneer where it's not attached to the dash and there's nothing supporting it behind, but that's ok because those areas will be cut out anyways.

The bookmatching was done so that there would be a whole lot of figure in the glove box area which is the largest unbroken surface on the dash. This is going to look wicked nice when finished.

The next steps I need to do are first finish cutting out all the cutouts and then sand all the corners to finish the fitting and shaping. When that's done i will paint on a light layer of wax-less shellac to fill in the pores of the wood, and then sand it down smooth with extra fine steel wool. Finally for the finish I picked up some marine varnish, designed for outdoor use with built in UV protection and completely waterproof.

 

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

I figured out it's a lot easier to use a small fine file from the top side to knock down the edges than sand paper, the paper grabbed and had the tendency to chip. The outside edge of the dash will not look that 'clean' when finished and rounded until I do what the original has, and mask the front and paint the sides to cover up any light color spots from the plywood that show up at the edge of the veneer. The glove box area looks a lot better though now that it's trimmed. I finished cleaning up the glove box (except I haven't cut out the lock hole yet) and it looks great, the figure on the burl is great, and the gap is small at the edges so it looks nice and continuous,with no edges to catch on anything. I've done enough work on it for today however, and need to crash in bed.

 

[DNK]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

Justin. Use a Dremel tool for the finishing of the edges. Works nice

 

[hondo402000]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

looking really good! Whats your plan for the finish? I ended up spraying a 2 part automotive clear coat when I refinished my dash, its been 3 years and no issues yet, and I second the dremel tool, I used one too, after trying to cut out the gauge holes with a razor blade, dremel tool and the mini sanding drums with fine grit does a great job


Hondo

 

[BRSLimited]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

WOW looks fantastic, can't wait to see it with finish on it. If the one I'm doing for my spitfire comes out half that good I'll be happy.

 

[Bob_TR6]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

Fwiw, probably not -25 bar, as the best you can do is 0 (absolute vacuum) or -1 (gauge). On that instrument, it looks like bar is red (hah!) on the inner scale.

 

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

I continued cutting out the holes in the dashboard this weekend. Some of the holes were a bit tricky because of the shelf inside them for the gauges to sit against

It took a while, bit I got all the gauge holes cut out. Next were the air vent holes on the ends.

Once I reached this point however, I thought the dash looked great.. and that cutting any further holes in it would ruin the symmetry and hide more of the gorgeous wood figure than I really wanted to.

I probably should have thought about this earlier, but now I'm going with my lathe and turning pegs to fit all the holes and gluing them up / backing the veneer with solid wood. My plan now is to move all the switches that were in the dash to the center console area, the wiper, headlights, and hazard switches.

I'm looking at some push/pull switch replacements like
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Universal-Headlight-Switch,2367.html
or
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/...0040#fragment-1

I will then modify (sand off the lettering and then re-paint new lettering) some of the original square center console switch faces to put on the ends of them and put them on the ends of the new switches to match up with the original TR6 style.

I'm going to play with some of the veneer scraps and finishes before I continue, once I plug the last 3 holes in the dash backing.

 

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

I was going to lift the body off the frame this weekend, and i'm -> <- this close to doing it, but i've run into a little snag.

First, I had to get all the bolts off, this entailed using an angle grinder on most of the bolts in the floor pan as they were so rusted that not only could I not get them with a wrench, but I could not get them out by drilling through the head because there wasnt enough head for me to get a good start for the drill on.

I braced the door frames with angle bar.

I made some braces that screw into the existing holes for the door latch

I also had to pull off the header on the front side. As I found out after this photo, there were some bumper supports that I had to get off as well , which, although not bolted to the body, interfered with the body lifting up.

They were just held on by these two bolts on each side... easy to remove, right? Not so much, after 2 hours I managed to get all 4 bolts off... and for the last one I had to remove the wheel and get an angle grinder in there to grind the nut off.

After this, i was finally ready to lift the whole body ! Hooray! ... and then my major snag...

The rust at the top of the inside of the fenders on the tub has weakened the tub integrity... When I started to lift, the metal buckled and bent, tearing out at the rust and crunching in. This is a spot that was going to get serious re-welding and new metal once everything was off... but for the time being, I dropped the tub back down. I may need to find a new lifting point for the front and see if I can balance it to them, rather than using the lifting points welded to the frame from the factory.

I'm going to have to go at it again tomorrow night after work and try to get the tub off and away from the chassis.

 

[startech47]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

Take a sharp knife and scratch next to the pieces of your braces, where they bolt together. This way you can see if they slip and realign them if necessary.

 

[Silverghost]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

Take a sharp knife and scratch next to the pieces of your braces, where they bolt together. This way you can see if they slip and realign them if necessary.

I don't think his orthodontist is going to like that idea! :wink:

 

[Brosky]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

Nice job on the dash Justin. Keep the pics coming. It's nice to see the progress on the body as well.

 

[TFB]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

Justin,beautiful dash.
I got to sit in a Jag xk120 Drophead Coupe at Rieglesville Pa car show this Sunday with gorgeous Burl Walnut dash.Looks like yours is going to be equally stunning.
have Fun
Tom

 

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

...And we have lift off!

I found a new grab point for up front and lifted the body up. I had to intentionally balance it towards the back so that I could clear the engine. Of course I forgot about one important thing... which is probably obvious in this photo... Yeah... where am I going to put that body down for now =D

I spent the next half hour clearing out the portable garage on the side to make room for the TR6 for the immediate time being. The TR7 will go back in the garage once i get someone to help me roll the old rolling chassis and engine out into it, so i can do the building up on the new frame in the garage with the newly refurbed stuff.

Once I was able to roll the engine hoist back and pull the tub away from the frame, the tub, for all that it's got bad rockers, bad floopans, and the tops of the inner fenders are rotted, isn't in that bad shape. You can see where the paint has been eaten away under the battery tray... but it's actually solid there, just surface rust. I'm lucky.

Speaking of lucky, that's what I am, having put 1000 miles on the TR6 after getting it before starting this work. Here's the top of my trailing arms. They look ready to pull right off the frame at any moment.

In addition, my rear differential was only held on at 3 points. Here's the fourth, with both the pin ripped out of the frame, and the support itself torn in two. A differential mount this bad no longer clunks, it goes *Squeak squeak squeak* whenever there's no torque in the differential

The car was also in a rear end collision at some point, the frame is buckled in the back right. and has been hammered back into shape.

It looks like the rubber around the stub axles is actually pretty new, and the bolts to the differential on the driveshaft and axles look much newer than everything else. So some work was done here at some point more recently in the past than other places

You cant really see it in this photo (or maybe in not seeing it, you're seeing what I saw) but on the front, the rubber bushing for the suspension are all but non-existent other than the ones at the top of the shock columns.

 

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

The radiator will need replacing, this is the good side, and it's nto that good, teh bad side looks like a fan has been into it a few times.

Overall I've got my work cut out for me. In this pic you can see the replacement frame behind the tub. It needs a little work, but nothing much. Also here's where I grabbed the front with hooks to lift it up since the normal factory lift points were causing that bending problem. (and hopefully it didnt bend /too/ bad)

All the rest of this is going to have to go on that "new" frame, and this will get rolled out into the tent garage, so i can get the TR7 back in the real garage

 

[StagByTriumph]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

Justin,

This is a great thread.
Considering I am ready to start on an all original TR250, this really helps me consider everything that needs to be coordinated and in place before I start turning the wrench.

In the 70's I had the opportunity to do a nut-n-bolt strip down a few of my neighbors "parts" TR6's, your photos bring back a lot of those memories, and in fact, I think a lot of those parts might still be sitting in the attic of his garage!

Keep supplying status and photos until you are driving a brand new TR6.

Cheers!

 

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

This weekend I built myself a plywood rotisserie for my TR6 tub.

It cost me about 100 bucks to put together, but most of that was the casters which i can keep re-using forever.
Materials list was
14 - 2x4x 8 foot
2 - 4x4x 8 foot
1 - 4 foot x 4 foot 3/4" plywood
4 - 5" pivoting casters - 330 lb capacity
16 - 5/16th 1.5" lag bolts
20 - 5/16th washers
1 box - 3" screws
4 - 5/16 x 8" carraige bolts
4 - 5/16 nuts
1 - 10 foot length of 3/8 round bar

The first thing I did was cut the 4x4s to 5 feet 6 inches long and then drill holes and mount them to the front and rear body mounting holes. The front holes are at an angle, so in order to have a flat spot to screw the plywood, I cut a corner off.

Next I cut the plywood into 12 inch wide strips 4 feet long, and then chopped the corners off 6" down each side.

Here you can see how the plywood connects to the body crossbars

I then proceded to screw in place supports across the backs of the plywood to stiffen it up, and give a place to screw in the cross supports to.

Here the last support I need to add is the bottom support across at the floor so that I can put my 'cart' under it to move it around.

The "cart" was made by full length 2x4s side by side with cutoffs from the other supports between, then the casters lag bolted to the bottoms. In order to keep it so that i can move the sides in and out depending on which orientation the tub is, since it's wider than it is tall, i used 3/8" round bar through drilled holes so that i could slide the sides in and out for variable width.

I used my engine hoist to pick up the tub and frame and drop it on the 'cart' all ready to roll out in the driveway and sandblast the heck out of it, and i'll be able to flip it on it's sides as well to get access to the bottom.

 

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

So, I drove to Chicago and back to pick up parts. The rust on the fenders being a lot worse than originally thought, once you started getting under the surface, I got myself some new fenders... and this time rust will never be a problem with them ever again... they're fiberglass. I will still be restoring the steel fenders, but i'll be doing it at a later date, when I've got more experience welding sheet metal from repairing my tub.

This set of quarter panels was used, but never painted. The car that they were on was a white car, and the owner just put the fiberglass with white gelcoat on the TR6 as is, instead of painting to match. They've got some scuffs, and a few chips in the gelcoat, but being fiberglass, that's easily addressed and repaired. In fact, I'm planning on covering over completely the side mounting holes for the driving lights, and probably covering over and flattening out the holes for the rear bumper side-mount points, hiding where the frame supports mount to the fenders so that they're invisible from the outside. I also plan now to get the stainless 'towel rack' bumpers for the TR6. Purists may hate me for what I plan to do... but I really like the looks of cars that have had these things done.

Here are 3 photos of what is inspiring me to 'clean up the lines' Which will be much easier to do with fiberglass instead of steel.

Here are the unpainted, needing slight gelcoat repair fenders, and the steel bonnet from the car they came off as well.

I also went out there to pick up the set of 72 spoke wire wheels that the fellow had. He had just got them back from being newly powder-coated (the wire hangers from the powder-coater's shop were still around them even) The splines looked fine on the inside, the spokes are all solid and in great shape, the hub adapters , while dirty, and with one knock off nut missing (having been temporarily replaced by a 2 wing knock off nut) looked just right. The wheels had some dings on the rims but, for a driver and enjoyable car, looked like just what I wanted and for a good price.

The fellow threw in an early radiator and gas tank, i think from a 69 TR6, as well.

Then... today I ended up getting a fantastic deal on a set of KN Minators from the UK, with a set of Dunlop SP Sport A2 P185/65R15 tires that I couldn't pass up. Only between 1000 and 1100 miles on the rims and tires from when they were new a year or so ago... And I think they'll look even sharper than wire wheels with the 'modernizations' that I'm doing to the body..

I even got little triumph branded valve stem covers with them

So... now i've got a set of wire wheels, fresh from the powder-coater, with hub adapters for a TR6, and will not be using them. Guess you can look for them in the for-sale section soon, or on craigslist.
In the mean time, I went and got some wire wheels to knock the undercoat off the tub. Trying to sand blast it off wasn't very effective except for in the thinnest spots.

 

[Brosky]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

This is turning into quite the project. As I told Bob, the Day of Triumph is going to be very interesting next year....

 

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

Hah, that'd only be if I can have something together and drivable by DOT. I wouldn't be holding my breath however. Well, I've got the TR7 to drive to shows in the mean time too =)

 

[justin_mercier]

Re: The start of something big. Frame off restorat

Today I ran into my first big "OH CRAP" moment with the restoration.

I have a replacement frame which I want to get ready to go. I just ordered a full front suspension rebuild kit with everything from trunnions to ball joints etc with urethane bushings, and I will be ordering the rear shock in coil conversion kit from RATCO.

The frame looked great when I bought it, with the only real work needing to be done boxing in the rear differential mounts, and fixing the frame mounting spot for the front left flexible break line... or so I thought.

The whole thing had been media blasted, acid dipped and painted with a semi-gloss black, and the trailing arm attachment wings had already been professionally replaced with new metal. I had gone over it with a ballpein hammer before buying it. Well, I wanted to be extra sure that everything was going to be good... so I chopped off the bottom Tshirt... and found this =(

The sidewalls of the frame there are fine and i can bang on them with a hammer all I want, but the bottom is rusted out under the Tshirt.

So I need advice here. Is this something that is repairable by chopping out the bottom wall with an air-cutter and welding in new metal for the bottom and replacing the Tshirt? Should I be getting professional help here? The rest of the frame is in great shape, and I've got 500$ invested into it already. As much as I would love a RATCO frame, it's just not in the budget after getting the money for TRick6's engine and drive train. I hope this is salvageable, because the rest of the frame is just fine, and WAY better than what I was driving with.

-Justin