The dreaded door adjustment

[bighealeysource]

Hey gang,
Haven't posted for some time but been out here lurking and reading ! But, thinking about trying to get a better adjustment on the driver door on my 56 100M. It is off on the latch side and I know I should adhere to my policy of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" but been bothering me for years. So, figured a nice winter project since know it will take a while. Do have a buddy who will help me as last time I tried this on a BN6 did it by myself and about committed hari kari by the time I was done. SO .... any suggestions on how best to proceed ? Tricks of the trade, etc ? When I say it is off on the latch side I mean the gap is not equal , perhaps off by a 1/16 of an inch if that much. Swage lines are perfect.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[Rob Glasgow]

Mike, I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Do you mean the gap between the rear of the door and the rear fender is nor uniform, top to bottom? If that's the case, is it narrower on the top or bottom of the door? Also how is the gap in the front edge of th door compared to the rear of the front fender?

 

[roscoe]

I try to be helpful when I post but in the case of fitting doors I find that the most useful advice I can offer is do what ever it takes to make it work. I have shimmed, shaved and swapped hinge halves; swore, cajoled, imploded and exploded with varying degrees of success. Although I prefer to not think about it and have no evidence that it is occuring, insidious frame sagging or degrees of the frame being old and tweaked are always lurking. I suspect that there were two groups of workers in the factory. A more or less happy group that inststalled drive trains and suspensions and a permanently ******-off group that beat panels, fit doors, tops and seat coverings. Obviously it helps to have a helper who has absolutely nothing better to do than support the door as you fidget. I used a floor jack and other bits to stand in for help and it was "difficult". If only there were a way to adjust the hinge position with the door closed it would be a snap. My only real offering is to do what you'd probably do any way and tighten the hinge screws just enough to hold and use a mallet and a brass or aluminum drift to adjust them after closing to see where you need to go. If all else fails and you are looking at a long winter (I didn't pay attention to Groundhog Day this year) once you get the latches perfect you can grind the door edge or run a weld bead and dress it to have perfect door gaps. Or you can do the deal where you lead the gaps closed and the recut them with the perfect thickness cutting wheel. Then, once you repaint the whole car you're done. Voila! or viola! as so many young folks write today. I still haven't put in all my door seals as I intend to revisit my doors.....it's only been 10 years. Maybe next week.....

 

[bighealeysource]

Hey Rob and Jon,
Gap along hinge edge is approx 18 - 20 mm where latch/rear fender edge is 8-10 mm, bit tighter at top of door. Passenger door is pretty consistent on both sides, about 12-14 mm each side. I wouldn't be surprised that the frame has sagged somewhat as original frame and car was raced heavily back in the day and suffered major front end damage before being restored in 2000. Of course I worsened this issue when I tried to correct the gap myself a couple of years ago and did not get it back as good as it was before I tinkered with it - remember my "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rule ! It is like the entire door needs to move about 6 to 8 mm towards hinges to equal the gaps out. I'm using a caliper but hard to get an accurate measurement. I don't see any shims between the hinges and either the doors or the hinge pillar. Seems like all the adjustment screws will allow is moving the door in or out, not the direction I need it to move. Anyway, maybe this additional info will help. Posted a couple of pictures. First one is left side gap and second is latch side gap.
Thanks again,
Mike

 

[Randy Forbes]

You could play with alternating some different hinges (number and measure them, looking for "thinnest" stack-up height).

You could also play around with "milling" some of the height away, but I'd split it between both mounting faces (door side and pillar side) and NOT take off the full height you think it needs on the first pass; maybe cut half or two-thirds off, then retest.

If the rest of the "alignment" is good, draw outlines of the hinge(s) on both door and pillar with China-Markers (aka grease pencil) which can be easily cleaned off afterwards. That will at least speed up the realignment process, and get you close to where you were.

One last tip, is to only snug up the mounting bolts, so that you can tap them around (use a block of wood and hammer) to fine-tune position. You'll never get anywhere if 1.) the door is flopping around too loose, or 2.) if the bolts are too tight to allow any movement.

In closing, I'd like to say BETTER YOU THAN ME!

 

[Rob Glasgow]

I'd would love to see a old video of the guy on the Healey assembly line adjusting the doors. I'll bet he got pretty good at eyeballing the fit on the first try. I remember seeing a clip of a guy in the Yugo (I think) factory doing the final panel and door adjustments with a 2x4 and his body to get things straight. I wonder if the panel fit adjusting job was something you applied for or got stuck with until you had more seniority.

 

[red57]

I think Jon Robbins nailed it

I suspect that there were two groups of workers in the factory. A more or less happy group that inststalled drive trains and suspensions and a permanently ******-off group that beat panels, ​

fit doors

, tops and seat coverings.​

Thanks Jon, made my day!
Dave

 

[roscoe]

Sounds like you need shims made out of dark matter, otherwise known as negative shims. Since they are exceedingly expensive if you can find them at all( billions of dollars and a no return policy from the vendor who is somewhere north of the Tesla in solar orbit), I suggest you do as has been suggested above and shave off some material from the hinge. They are pretty beefy on the 100 BN2 that I have but I think they were different on the BN1s. You can always shim them back to what you have now. Besides, who of us knows what the door gaps on cars as they rolled out new were like? Maybe all our door gaps are actually better than original and we should be marked down at the shows if they look too even......

 

[Michael Oritt]

Obviously there is a reason why door fit changes and I suspect it has little to do with doors and hinges and a lot to do with chassis flexibility. That said, I'd deal with it in any one of the methods mentioned, the negative shims being the best suggestion.

 

[bighealeysource]

Thanks guys ! Think I'll try to find some of those negative shims that Jon suggested, seems like the easiest way to do it. In reality, guess I might rethink doing anything at all as not sure I want to get into trying to mill off part of the thickness of existing hinges or buying new ones and milling those down. Have a buddy in one of the local car clubs who is a retired machinist so he could probably do it easily on some machine tools the club has, but boy, a lot of work and still messing with the bloody door. Maybe I'll practice "if it ain't broke don't fix it" I always mention !!! If I decide to move forward I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[roscoe]

It isn't how I feel about it but somebody once said " When I get the urge to exercise, I lie down until it passes".

 

[RAC68]

Hi Mike,

A while back, a friend who was watching me having a **** of a time setting the doors between the fenders, gave me some great advice. He indicated I had installed the front and rear fenders and would always fail trying to get even spacing when installing the door. His suggestion was to first install the front cowl and then the front fenders loosely. When installing the door, set the hinges to achieve even spacing across the sill and then go back and position the front fender to the door for even spacing. Next is the installation of the rear cowl with the rear fender positioned to the door. If all superstructure elements are sufficiently in tact, the door surround along with the fender-to-cowl beading will provide sufficient play to achieve reasonably even spacing. Small shim adjustment of the hinges will help after fender/door positioning is achieved.

Mike, when accepting delivery of my new Healey, the front fenders were set 1/4" above the door top and after I refitted all outer panels, my fenders to doors are even with good spacing all around...not perfect but very good. This was achieve by someone who had never done body work and with only the advice above.

Good luck,
Ray(64BJ8P1)