TR4/4A Tackling the biggest problem with my TR4A.... Frame Damage :[

[Djoslyn]

Thoughts on repair-ability of this frame?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-Trium...173740?hash=item41fe59d2ac:g:BTEAAOSw44BYOewa

I do have a good friend with a fabrication shop that could easily take care of replacing the rusted out sections on this frame and add some reinforcements. The T-shirt and trailing arm mounting areas appear ok. I'd obviously have to have the spring perch structure removed since my car is a Live axle.

The price is seems like a really good starting point but I'm worried that there could be more rot lurking under some of that rust.

 

[Rut]

I’ve got a TR6 frame at the farm that had a little poorly repaired damage to the driver side front that looks better than that frame and you can have it for free. I know it’s hard to wait to find what you need, but please wait for a really good frame. eBay, FB Marketplace, CL, etc. have them from time to time.
Rut

 

[Djoslyn]

I don't have a problem waiting. I'm just trying to get opinions on everything I come across from people more experienced than I

I'm still waiting on pictures from tirnipgreen so in the meantime I'm scouring the internet for other possibilities.

 

[rooster]

Also take a look at the suspension components on the damaged side, there's a good chance that they are damaged / bent out of shape as well. They might be making the frame damage look worse than it appears.

Before you do anything take some careful measurements of both sides and compare, to see how much damage there really is.

 

[Djoslyn]

Suspension components LOOK ok. I'd like to put the car up on jack stands and measure everything just to see how badly bent the frame is. I may attempt that this weekend.

 

[Djoslyn]

So I'm still on the lookout for a frame that is in decent shape, but in the mean time I've been taking some measurements and getting a closer look at the hack job that was done on my car.

It appears that the drivers side turret was replaced by putting the new one directly over the stump of the old one....
You can see the remains of the original one below:

And look at how the distance from the lower control arm mount to the upper control arm mount differs from side to side.

Good side:

Bad Side:

The drivers side upper control arm is 1/2" higher than the passenger side.

The rest of the frame looks in good shape. I still need to finish marking the floor using the plumb bob and taking all the measurements to confirm that the rest of the frame is strait If I decide to replace the bad section or not...
I'm still leaning towards finding a known good frame but finding one will probably be time consuming.

 

[malbaby]

Repair if frame still square.

 

[Frank Canale]

Finding a good frame may be time consuming, but you can not imagine the time it will take to remove the spring tower. repair it and get it aligned and re welded. If you decide to do the repair resist the temptation to cut anything except the welds that attach it to the frame. You can remove it with 4" grinder with cutoff wheels, dremel tool with cutoff wheels, Die grinder with carbide burrs and the most important tool is a saws all with long fine tooth blades to cut welds that the other tools can not get to. Removing the spring tower is a slow tedious job. This picture shows the spring tower in position to be re attached. 2 lasers . plumb bobs, jigs, clamps and turnbuckles to hold it in position and be able to check the alignment as it is tacked and after it is tacked and all measurements are confirmed then it was welded. I did it just for the experience, I learned a lot along the way. If you can find a good frame you will be way ahead , a much easier road to take. Having trouble attaching picture. I will post it as soon as I can.

 

[Djoslyn]

I'm definitely not considering replacing just the turret. The underlying frame is mangled enough that I think the whole corner needs to be replaced with a salvaged portion from another frame. As much as I'd like to do all of this myself and use it as a learning experience I'm not sure I'm entirely up to the task. I do have a friend that owns a fab shop that could do it for me.

Being able to move components from the bad frame to a known good frame seems the most appealing to me and also could potentially come with less surprises vs trying to repair my current one.

Regardless what I end up doing, I do really appreciate all the helpful advice!

 

[sp53]

When I look at the fulcrum pins that hold the wishbones, the upper shaft looks bent that ½ inch, probably the camera angle. Have you tried a front end shop and asked them what they think? Perhaps they can make things a little better. Heck that might be the most reasonable way to fix something like that I do not knw, and it sounds like any repair other than a super get into it with the tub off and a lot of experience is going to fall short. Maybe you can get it fix so it stops eating tires, and take you time finding a NEWer frame. I bet one comes up on your local C-list every 12 months or so.

 

[Djoslyn]

I think it is definitely the camera angle.

This is a prime example of a hackjob repair. Some other examples of what is wrong on the repaired side is the turret rubs against the steering rack boot while the good side has 1/4" of clearance. The rear angled turret support is 1/2" longer on the repaired side filled with weld to close the gap than the good side. The rear lower A arm mount is missing the reinforcement that the good side has. You can still see where it used to be on the top and outside of the frame. And the frame rails themselves are still mangled as you can see on the first post. So I think replacing the whole section or getting a "new" frame is in order.

Both options require the tub off the frame. Logistically for me a replacement frame makes the most sense. I just wish I could justify and afford a rat-co frame....

 

[Frank Canale]

I think I am having to resize my pictures. Hope this works. A little late but , I think you have made the right decision

 

[Djoslyn]

I think I am having to resize my pictures. Hope this works. A little late but , I think you have made the right decision
View attachment 60424

I remember coming across your post with these pictures before. Going that route is probably more ambitious that I want to deal with at this point.

 

[Djoslyn]

Well I've purchased a replacement frame. It however needs a good amount of work as well.

It was a previously repaired frame with the front passenger side being replaced by a section from another frame. Upon an initial quick inspection it looked to be good but once I got it home and started checking it for straightness, measurements are ever so slightly out of spec on the repaired corner. It appears to be slightly twisted rearward and the sides bowed out. Once I fix the cracks I'll likely be taking it to a frame shop to have it corrected.

When I started cleaning the frame I noticed 2 cracks on the passenger side turret, one being in between the motor mounting holes, the other being on the front upright side of the turret.

Upon flipping the frame over and cleaning it with a wire wheel holes in the bottom started appearing. Both trailing arms and the two central supports that the transmission mounts to are slightly swiss cheese... Thankfully the T-shirt area appears solid but I'll most likely be checking that area of the frame thoroughly once I open it up.

The rest of the frame appears really solid though. Trailing arm/spring mounting area looks great.


Needless to say, I've got a welder on the way and I've got a decent amount of work ahead of me getting this frame ready to go. I also plan on doing the typical things to strengthen the known weak points in these.

Imgur ablum:
https://imgur.com/a/mqhAwtz

 

[bammons]

I know Ryals Cheek (Turnipgreen) and I think he has a TR4A IRS frame (going from memory). He has lost his storage area and I am sure he would make a decent deal. Sounds like he could help you and you could help him. He has had a ad on both this site and on The Triumph Experience recently. Bruce

 

[Djoslyn]

I know Ryals Cheek (Turnipgreen) and I think he has a TR4A IRS frame (going from memory). He has lost his storage area and I am sure he would make a decent deal. Sounds like he could help you and you could help him. He has had a ad on both this site and on The Triumph Experience recently. Bruce

This is actually his frame. It isn't quite in as good of shape as I'd hoped. It needs quite a bit of work to be roadworthy again..

 

[malbaby]

If you have decided on a frame off rebuild, then I would buy a "Ratco" frame.
I realise that they may seem expensive, but the time and expense in fixing an old one, there would not be a lot of $ difference, and you have the BIG BONUS of NO ROT, NO REAR CHASSIS FLEX, and PERFECT ALIGNMENT
Think of the purchase as an investment. Much higher resale value if you ever decide to sell the car.
What's a few thousand dollars in the overall picture...lol.
My bottom line, if $'s and time are a major concern, is to fix the cross member tower, which is not a difficult job.

 

[Madflyer]

I got my 1973 TR 6 in 1992 as a driver and found the frame had been clipped front end poor welds on an on. That when I got two more parts cars $3,500.00 driver $ 150.00 two parts cars. with little running gear but rolling.
One good frame That had good measurements. add ex supports as needed IRS studs motor mounts and the like. What I did find was that frame must have been a Friday afternoon job. What I mean is welded parts on the frame were incomplete or mist all together so all made right. That was the beginning the frame off restoration. As your car is a good looking out side body removal not that bad. Your pic show no reason to fix it find one even a dead car. There was one for sale in Nevada $ 3,00.00 that could go for less and sell all you did not need for your cost think of it that way. Madflyer

 

[Djoslyn]

I did a bunch of cutting today..

There was definitely some mice or rats living in this at one point and that is probably why it was really only rotted in just the areas where they could access easily.

 

[malbaby]

What are your intentions to overcome the inherent rear chassis flex. Even more important with the chassis you are working on due it's problematic nature.