Hey - did you know if you click on the title of a thread it will take you to the first unread post since you last visited that thread?
but were afraid to ask: 
STOP!! Never post your email address in open forums. Bots can "harvest" your email! If you must share your email use a Private Message or use the 
smilie in place of the real @
Pretty Please - add it to our Events forum(s) and add to the calendar! >> 
I recently became the owner of a 1961 TR3. It had been in storage ofr 5+ years so I had to get her running again. It is in great shape and I got her back yesterday and drove it 70 miles or so. A couple things I noted is that it is leaking oil (which is a separate issue, I think), and there is a strong smell of fuel when I stop (I guess it could be oil that I am smelling, but I am fairly sure it is gas). The smeel is strong enough that this AM, you could smell it in the house. The TR3 is parked in the garage, which is attached to the house. The car used to be my Dad's (he bought it used in 69 when I was 2) and I do remember the smell, but it just seems a little more excessive than I remember or think it should be. Any experience with lessening this issue?
-
Hey Guest!
British Car Forum has been supporting enthusiasts for over 25 years by providing a great place to share our love for British cars. You can support our efforts by upgrading your membership for less than the dues of most car clubs. There are some perks with a member upgrade!**Upgrade Now**
(PS: Upgraded members don't see this banner, nor will you see the Google ads that appear on the site.)
Strong Gas Smell
- Thread starter spineguru
- Start date
Share this page
ObiRichKanobi
Jedi Knight
Offline
Check for fuel leaks, especially from the bottom of the tank. My wedge had apparently sat for quite awhile with a nearly empty tank, and the bottom of the tank rusted to the point that it was porous; just touch it and it would start leaking. I too noticed the strong smell of gas, but never saw any drips on the garage floor (it evaporated too fast), but noticed it when I got underneath her to do something and brushed the tank.
AltaKnight
Jedi Knight
Offline
When I first got my TR6 I noticed the same thing.
On investigation I found that the mechanical fuel pump was leaking (the diaphragm inside). There are vent holes in the bottom that let the gas drip out and the smell was overpowering every time I went in the garage.
On investigation I found that the mechanical fuel pump was leaking (the diaphragm inside). There are vent holes in the bottom that let the gas drip out and the smell was overpowering every time I went in the garage.
Geo Hahn
Yoda
Offline
It's a long list of places that these guys can leak -- and a little gas goes a long way (i.e. a small hard-to-find leak can produce a large smell).
You may be able to work out whether it's leaking all the time or just when running (the latter is more common). In addition to the above -- check the fuel line connections at the carbs as these were originally just push-on with no clamps. I use wire clamps as they look more period correct but they aren't as effective as bands. I do not like the band clamps with the slot and screw tighteners, they can cut into the hose (and into your hand). For tight clamping (such as the rubber line to the fuel pump) I prefer the clamps sold for fuel injection lines.
Another possible leak is from the fuel bowls -- usually due to a maladjusted or stuck needle valve (or grose-jet if the bowl has been converted to these). Could also be the gasket at the top of the bowl... this will often leave a brownish trace on the side of the bowl.
The seals in the jet assembly will also fail over time and fuel will drip from the jet housing (bottom of the carb).
Fuel leaks are easier to find if the engine is pretty clean since even if they have evaporated away they will leave a varnish-like trace.
This is really not something to live with, a fuel leak is a hazard to be eliminated. Oil leaks on the other hand -- are more or less par for the course.
P.S. -- for a couple of bucks you can and should just replace all the rubber fuel line. Old rubber can crack and at the very least loses its flex and doesn't seal as well as it once did. I have found that not all 1/4" line is created equal (this is the size from the metal line to the carbs and on the carbs). Some seems to have a smaller inside diameter and is eay to get a tight fit... some is slightly larger I.D. and is hard to get tight. Might be that one is really metric or just a different manufacturer.
You may be able to work out whether it's leaking all the time or just when running (the latter is more common). In addition to the above -- check the fuel line connections at the carbs as these were originally just push-on with no clamps. I use wire clamps as they look more period correct but they aren't as effective as bands. I do not like the band clamps with the slot and screw tighteners, they can cut into the hose (and into your hand). For tight clamping (such as the rubber line to the fuel pump) I prefer the clamps sold for fuel injection lines.
Another possible leak is from the fuel bowls -- usually due to a maladjusted or stuck needle valve (or grose-jet if the bowl has been converted to these). Could also be the gasket at the top of the bowl... this will often leave a brownish trace on the side of the bowl.
The seals in the jet assembly will also fail over time and fuel will drip from the jet housing (bottom of the carb).
Fuel leaks are easier to find if the engine is pretty clean since even if they have evaporated away they will leave a varnish-like trace.
This is really not something to live with, a fuel leak is a hazard to be eliminated. Oil leaks on the other hand -- are more or less par for the course.
P.S. -- for a couple of bucks you can and should just replace all the rubber fuel line. Old rubber can crack and at the very least loses its flex and doesn't seal as well as it once did. I have found that not all 1/4" line is created equal (this is the size from the metal line to the carbs and on the carbs). Some seems to have a smaller inside diameter and is eay to get a tight fit... some is slightly larger I.D. and is hard to get tight. Might be that one is really metric or just a different manufacturer.
Offline
Hi, Spineguru and welcome to the Forum. As you've already seen, this is a great place for info, as well as camaraderie.
Another area to check is the bottom of the carbs. These are prone to leaking, and it can be a pretty steady drip.
Mickey
Another area to check is the bottom of the carbs. These are prone to leaking, and it can be a pretty steady drip.
Mickey
Hi spineguru and welcome. Yes, as was said those vehicles can leak fuel and oil. In fact, the British did not manufacture toasters because they could not figure out how to make them leak oil. You might check the fuel pump glass bowl because sometimes they come loose after time if they dry out. One of the tricks I use to find oil and gas leaks is take some baby powder and kinda mist it around the area. It will leave tracer marks from the origin of the leak. First you might want to just take some house hold cleaner like Windex or Simple Green and clean the area to get a fresh look. In addition, make sure the choke fully returns because this too can cause a gas leak.
Sp53
Sp53
Don Elliott
Obi Wan
Offline
I have had three cases of gas leaks. One was fixed by simply tightening the connection where the gas line comes out the bottom of the gas tank. The second was the flange around the mechanical fuel pump. When I restored my TR3A from 1987 to 1990, I overtorqued two of the screws and stripped the threads in the lower body of the pump which caused a leak. It was at TRA in Ohio back in 1992 that the judges pointed this out to me and docked me a point. So I went to the nearest K-Mart and bought 2 "C" clamps for about a dollar each, tightened them on the flange and as we say up here in French Canada, "Voila". I bought helicoils to repair the holes but in the meantime I have been using a good spare pump that works without any leaks. The third problem was when my toolbox rubbed against the hardboard of my trunk and this rubbing wore a hole through the back wall of the gas tank. It would only smell when the tank was fuller that where the leak was. I removed the tank and had it slushed with a 2-part epoxy mix. More recently on the tank in the TR3A that I'm restoring now, I bought the kit from POR-15 and did it myself. Since that tank had been empty for 5 years, I welded 3 areas where the wall was corroded through. Don't weld a tank that has had any gas in it even if it has been 3 or 4 years. If your tank is leaking, you can use the POR-15 paint with fiberglass matting and fix the holes that way.
Repairing that old "original" fuel pump will make a nice project for next winter.
Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthreads/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1919/ppuser/4127
Repairing that old "original" fuel pump will make a nice project for next winter.
Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A
https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthreads/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1919/ppuser/4127
G
Guest
Guest
Guest
Offline
TR3, eh? Let me warn you that this is potentially a highly dangerous situation and that it is only in your best interest that you not store this vehicle anywhere near you house. I have seen this happen before and the end result can be disasterous if you let it persist. My sincere advice for you is allow me to come to your home with a trailor and cart it off for you. The fee would not be that high, in fact, because I care for you and your family, I might even pay you a bit to relieve you of this dangerous situation.
Welcome to the forum.
Bill
Welcome to the forum.
Bill
Geo Hahn
Yoda
Offline
Geez... baby powder & an offer to cart it away. What a crowd here.
The suggestion to check the fuel bowl was one I neglected to mention. That gasket at the top of the bowl can often dry out, then leak when back in active duty. If this is leaking (bottom of bowl may be wet) resist the temptation to just crank hard on the thumb nut under the bowl. Overtightening that sucker will distort the portion of the soft casting that fits the top of the bowl and you'll never get it to seal. Better to replace that gasket with modern rubber or (my way) make a gasket out of 1/8" cork. I make a bunch so I never have to reuse one.
The suggestion to check the fuel bowl was one I neglected to mention. That gasket at the top of the bowl can often dry out, then leak when back in active duty. If this is leaking (bottom of bowl may be wet) resist the temptation to just crank hard on the thumb nut under the bowl. Overtightening that sucker will distort the portion of the soft casting that fits the top of the bowl and you'll never get it to seal. Better to replace that gasket with modern rubber or (my way) make a gasket out of 1/8" cork. I make a bunch so I never have to reuse one.
vettedog72
Jedi Knight
Offline
GET IT OUT OF THE GARAGE ASAP /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif. If you have a strong gasoline smell, pull it out of the garage until you ID the leak; probably a significant one. A big leak does not mean it will cost a lot to fix; just keep you and the family safe until you get it stopped.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I am impressed by the number of responses. I sort of figured everyone would think "dumb new guy", but it sounds like this could be serious. So serious one of you offered to take it off my hands! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif One more bit of information, it does get better after it has been sitting idol for a while so I do not think that it is leaking while sitting. I have not looked everywhere, but there is no "evidence" of a major leak. So I think I am looking for something fairly small, but like one of you mentioned, this could cause a relatively large smell. I am trying to be cautious, as I am new to this. My other cars are a 2002 and 2003, so I pretty used to things not leaking, smelling, grinding, creaking, etc. My dad asked me how it was driving since we got it going, and I said "great, I think, I really have no frame of reference!" I may ask some questions that seem a little naive, so jsut tell me so, It won;t hurt my feelings. thanks again. I'll let you know what I discover.
One last place to check are the rubber gaskets/washers that secure the carb float bowl to the body of the carbs. These washers have a little rubber lip that goes inside, and since it is very easy to rock the float bowls back and forth while working on things, the lip tears.
I had a leak from these on one carb on my TR3 that was stored for 10 years. Luckily I had a carb kit laying around, so it was just a two minute fix.
BUT my fuel line from front carb to the rear carb (the flexible cloth-over-rubber line the metal line goes into) on the rear was leaking. I used some other rubber hose, and it's good to go.
I had a leak from these on one carb on my TR3 that was stored for 10 years. Luckily I had a carb kit laying around, so it was just a two minute fix.
BUT my fuel line from front carb to the rear carb (the flexible cloth-over-rubber line the metal line goes into) on the rear was leaking. I used some other rubber hose, and it's good to go.
Don Elliott
Obi Wan
Offline
In 2000, on my way to VTR in Portland Oregon (7225 miles round trip) I stopped in Yellowstone National Park and smelled gas. It was the "petrol stop-cock" that was leaking. The fellow TR3A owner whom I was convoying with gave me his yellow and red tube of "Seal-All". When the whole area was dry, I squeezed the Seal-All all over that area and it fixed the problem till I got home.
If that's where your leak is, try the Seal-All and let us know the results. Cork is the bark of the cork tree and has veins in it. I made a permanent change with a short piece of gas line tubing with a sleeve made of cork inside the tubing to keep it central. It hasn't leaked again in over 5 years during which time I have driven another 35,000 miles.
Don Elliott, Original Owner
https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthreads/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1919/ppuser/4127
If that's where your leak is, try the Seal-All and let us know the results. Cork is the bark of the cork tree and has veins in it. I made a permanent change with a short piece of gas line tubing with a sleeve made of cork inside the tubing to keep it central. It hasn't leaked again in over 5 years during which time I have driven another 35,000 miles.
Don Elliott, Original Owner
https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthreads/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1919/ppuser/4127
OK, I took all this advice and thought it best to get it out of my garage and back to the mechanic. I do not mind tinkering with stuff, but this fuel thing was freaking me out a little. The scent was strong, even after a full 24 hours of not driving it. I have no where else to keep it and there was no way I could allow the smell to permeate the house any longer. So it went back to the shop. It is supposed to be in the 40s and rainy here for the next 4 or 5 days (it was 80 today, so it was great excuse to drive it to the shop!) so why not have it at the shop getting fioxed for when it warms up next week. Hopefuly it will be a minor fix. Even if I spend a little money I will sleep better at night. Thanks again. I hope to personally use your advice on an issue that is a little less pressing.
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Hi and welcome,
You've gotten a lot of good suggestions. I can only add a couple things that I don't think anyone has mentioned:
1. Depending on how old they are, all the rubber fuel lines might need to be replaced. Older type rubber is attacked and damaged by modern unleaded fuel formulations. This can lead to leaks and/or fouling of the carbs if small, gummy particles break off the inside of the hose and travel through the system. Modern rubber lines are widely and easily available at auto parts stores, or through your mechanic.
2. The fuel tank is vented. On TR4 it's on the RH side, I'm not sure about TR3. On TR4, a vent tube goes from the RH top of the tank, down the side and out through the floor of the car. This vent is necessary to allow air into the tank when running the car, or a vacuum would form and effect fuel flow in the relatively low pressure system. Check that the vent is all the way out through the floor of the car, usually terminating just above the rear axle. I've seen these vent tubes get damaged by vibration and broken off short, ending up dumping small amounts of fuel into the trunk area where you certainly will smell it and don't want it.
Leaking oil is not all that uncommon with LBCs. In fact, some say it's part of the cars' charm! However, depending upon how much and where it's coming from, there might be a few things you should check. There is a breather tube on the LH/rear side of the engine. If there is a lot of "blow-by" past the piston rings, as a result of wear, the vent tube can see more than usual amount of oil mist being pushed out. This situation might improve in time, with a car that's been stored for a while. But, it can also be an indication the engine is getting a bit tired and might benefit from a rebuild soon. Over-filling the engine oil can also lead to more than usual amounts of oil being pushed out the breahter tube. The original "scroll-type" rear main seal on the engine is another common source of leaks, but actually works pretty well if installed correctly. Leaks from the valve cover, front engine cover, oil sump pans and rear differential cover are most often caused by overtightening their fastening nuts and bolts. That warps the covers to the point they won't seal. The solution is just to remove them and do a little work on the flanges to re-flatten them, then reinstall bieng careful not to overtightening. I like to use Hylomar on many of these seals, it's good stuff.
The rear axle and gearbox can both start leaking if their vents get plugged. What happens is the oil and air inside the gearbox or diff heats up during driving, and expands. If there is no venting, oil can get pushed past the seals. Sometimes it's just a matter of cleaning the vent area (being careful not to drop anything inside). Other times various seals need replacement, too.
Part of the "aura" of these older cars is a lot more odors of oil and gasoline than with modern cars. It's sort of surprising how much, if used to driving only late model cars. So the trick is to tell the difference between "normal" aromas and abnormal ones! I think it's safe to say that if the smell of gasoline from the garage is permeating your house even after 24 hours, that's a lot more than normal! You are wise to have the mechanic look at it and help. Could be a serious safety issue.
Let us know what your or your mechanic find.
Enjoy your Dad's old car! Some years ago my Dad gave me his old Leica cameras and lenses. You can be sure I'll never part with them!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
You've gotten a lot of good suggestions. I can only add a couple things that I don't think anyone has mentioned:
1. Depending on how old they are, all the rubber fuel lines might need to be replaced. Older type rubber is attacked and damaged by modern unleaded fuel formulations. This can lead to leaks and/or fouling of the carbs if small, gummy particles break off the inside of the hose and travel through the system. Modern rubber lines are widely and easily available at auto parts stores, or through your mechanic.
2. The fuel tank is vented. On TR4 it's on the RH side, I'm not sure about TR3. On TR4, a vent tube goes from the RH top of the tank, down the side and out through the floor of the car. This vent is necessary to allow air into the tank when running the car, or a vacuum would form and effect fuel flow in the relatively low pressure system. Check that the vent is all the way out through the floor of the car, usually terminating just above the rear axle. I've seen these vent tubes get damaged by vibration and broken off short, ending up dumping small amounts of fuel into the trunk area where you certainly will smell it and don't want it.
Leaking oil is not all that uncommon with LBCs. In fact, some say it's part of the cars' charm! However, depending upon how much and where it's coming from, there might be a few things you should check. There is a breather tube on the LH/rear side of the engine. If there is a lot of "blow-by" past the piston rings, as a result of wear, the vent tube can see more than usual amount of oil mist being pushed out. This situation might improve in time, with a car that's been stored for a while. But, it can also be an indication the engine is getting a bit tired and might benefit from a rebuild soon. Over-filling the engine oil can also lead to more than usual amounts of oil being pushed out the breahter tube. The original "scroll-type" rear main seal on the engine is another common source of leaks, but actually works pretty well if installed correctly. Leaks from the valve cover, front engine cover, oil sump pans and rear differential cover are most often caused by overtightening their fastening nuts and bolts. That warps the covers to the point they won't seal. The solution is just to remove them and do a little work on the flanges to re-flatten them, then reinstall bieng careful not to overtightening. I like to use Hylomar on many of these seals, it's good stuff.
The rear axle and gearbox can both start leaking if their vents get plugged. What happens is the oil and air inside the gearbox or diff heats up during driving, and expands. If there is no venting, oil can get pushed past the seals. Sometimes it's just a matter of cleaning the vent area (being careful not to drop anything inside). Other times various seals need replacement, too.
Part of the "aura" of these older cars is a lot more odors of oil and gasoline than with modern cars. It's sort of surprising how much, if used to driving only late model cars. So the trick is to tell the difference between "normal" aromas and abnormal ones! I think it's safe to say that if the smell of gasoline from the garage is permeating your house even after 24 hours, that's a lot more than normal! You are wise to have the mechanic look at it and help. Could be a serious safety issue.
Let us know what your or your mechanic find.
Enjoy your Dad's old car! Some years ago my Dad gave me his old Leica cameras and lenses. You can be sure I'll never part with them!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
Hi Bryan and welcome,
Please heed Alan's advice.Quite dangerous that pesky fuel you know.
One of the first accessories I added when I found LBC's was a fire extinguisher.Never had to use it ,but..........
Please let us all know about you're new mechanic and how you get along.
A good question to him may be what the bore (cylindrical measurement) of the clutch slave cylinder should be, that may tell everyone how well versed your wrench turner may be.
Have a bunch of fun!
80 Degrees?
Please heed Alan's advice.Quite dangerous that pesky fuel you know.
One of the first accessories I added when I found LBC's was a fire extinguisher.Never had to use it ,but..........
Please let us all know about you're new mechanic and how you get along.
A good question to him may be what the bore (cylindrical measurement) of the clutch slave cylinder should be, that may tell everyone how well versed your wrench turner may be.
Have a bunch of fun!
80 Degrees?
Thanks for the welcome Winston. Yes, it was 80 degrees, but it has been in the 30s the last few days (Iowa weather! I know because I am an Iowa alumni), so the car is just as well off at the mechanics. So far, I like this guy very much. His shop is a small family owned shop. He specializes in the British cars (Triumph, MG, etc>) and he has already told me most of the things Alan mentioned, as far as the breather tubes and things. I showed Ron (the mechanic) this thread and he said he thought like I was communicating with some knowledgable foks. He was going to use some of the suggestions to track it down. I did not talk to him on Friday, but will touch base with him tomorrow and see where things stand. here is a shot of the car the day I got it. I know, not fair. Most of you guys built yours from the grounfd up, or resurrected them from the dead. Now you can see why I need to get this thing on the road and get that fuel leak stopped!
