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GT6 Spit6 on the way.

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trrdster2000

trrdster2000

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My friend has a TR4A and a Spitfire.We ran across a GT6 about a year ago andcould not get together on the price .Long story short, came to terms about a week ago. Good bonnet, frame rotted out and been setting since 1986. Changed oil and filter,sanded the points, ran a jumper cable to ground, plugged a clip on the plus side of the coil and battery, stuck positive cable on starter after turning it with a wrench a couple of times and got it to hit a few times.One carb butterfly was frozen, so I ran through a couple I had on the shelf and swapped them out. New plugs, but compression test was really a waste of time as the valves had been exposed to the same position for years and rust doesn’t give a very good seal. We put some oil in the cylinders and turned it over a few times, added a little more oil and let it set overnight.After connecting it all up and filling the carbs from a jug, shot of starting fluid and away we go, ran great after a few minutes and no leaks from the cooling system, (it was full).The idle was 900RPM’s and reacted fine when reeved up. No gear produced any movement of the rear wheels and they turned very easy with no noise from the rear end.I ’m hoping clutch and not lay gear is the reason it was parked. Tore out the interior to get at the gear box and U-joint, this was just a few bolts from taking it all out, so it’s setting there waiting for us to get the engine horst over there and move the drivetrain over to his house to put it all together.We will need the front towers, radiator supports, transmission mount and the yokes from the axles to match up with the rear end from the GT6.Anyone know if the stub axles from the Spitfire have the same splines as the GT6? Would save a lot of banging and clanging changing U-joints as we haven’tlong changed them on the Spitfire and they are the same as the GT6, just bigger yokes.
This will be a long term job and I will keep you updated.Been many years since I last did this and hope I remember all the stuff that needs changing. I did the doors and cut the glass on the last one to get the vents but he doesn’t like that idea, suits me .It will be painted if we can’t match up the color on the bonnet.
Oh, some rust on the flat panel on the bonnet up front where the support bar runs across, anyone got one that’s bad everywhere but there and cut me out a foot or so of that almost flat area.
Any surjections are welcome on things we need to pay attention too .If the transmission is bad we will go from there. It has a separate front bell housing on the GT6, so a little work and we could maybe add a 5 speed from something. I plan to convince him to use the GT6 rims to get a wider tire, if he wants even wider, I have a set of TR7 rims, just have to grind the front calibers a bit to clear.I did remember that part of it, at almost 75 that’s not bad.
If you are watching and it seems in slow motion, now you know why.
Wayne
 
What years are the cars in question? On the other hand, I don't know that it matters all that much, as my advice is to use the GT6 differential regardless for the presumably better ratio (usually 4.11:1 in an earlier Spitfire or 3.89:1 in a newer one, compared to the typical 3.27:1 of a GT6). I'd also strongly recommend using front and rear axle bits complete (unless the GT6 is a Rotoflex, in which case it's still something to consider but a lot more work).

And I would consider the GT6's 4.5" wide rims to be a minimum, certainly NOT the 3.5" wide rims of an older Spitfire.
 
Andy, thanks for the thoughts. The cars are '74 Spitfire and '72 GT6 rotoflex, sorry not going there, to much work for little gain. Yes, we are going to use the GT6 rear, his is a 4:11 and is not a good choice for everyday. That is why we need the yokes from the rear axles at the rear end, to change the U-joints to match the larger pattern of the GT6. I'm with you on the wider rims and I told him we are not doing this on a tight budget, nothing stupid, just right.

Thanks, Wayne
 
Originally, a '74 Spitfire would've had a 3.89:1 diff with the larger yokes/flanges. If there's a 4.11:1 in there with smaller yokes, it came from a significantly earlier Spitfire (should be six holes on top of case for older style fixed spring), and I'd be a bit surprised if it's still intact, unless the number is FC120000 or higher, in which case at least the inner axles were a bit beefier but still with small flanges.
 
Andy, I hate these new projects, all I do is figure on what needs to be done and don't sleep much. Just finished putting in rebuilt Rams in the Jaguar with new hoses and that was a lot of worry over not such a big effort, just a lot of taking apart.
The rear was changed right after getting the Spitfire as the original was junk and the only thing I had laying around was a 4.11:1, we also changed to the newer transmission and drive shaft. About 7 years ago and there was a bunch of bastard parts on the car to start with and every light green wire in the harness was burnt or replaced with a black wire. We gave up and got a new one. I don't recall the flange size to be honest, I hope you are right, in fact the rear may have come out of a GT6 we autocrossed and that's why we didn't have to change flanges. I'll let you know on that.

Funny how things go, this weekend there is another '72 GT6 going up for auction in this area, doesn't look like much in the pictures, but it may have a overdrive, so will look into that.

Just thought of something else, the speedometer will need to be change and I have a new GT6 cable for the carbs. Glad it's got the cable, even the '49 Roadster had a cable.

Wayne
 
That 4.11 could be from a 1972 "Federal" Spitfire; that year only had the 4.11 rather than the 3.89 due to the low-compression 1296 (Triumph went to the 1493cc engine for the Federal 1973 models and reverted to the 3.89 at that time). As I recall, it would have the FK prefix serial number and, of course, the larger flanges.
 
Thanks Andy, that may be the case, half my things I don't know where they came from. I do know I tried to give away engines and rear ends when I moved a couple of years ago and had no one even inquire, scraped it all. What a shame. One that really ticked me was the early rear end for a Healey, complete with wire splines I offered to the local club president for anyone to come and get it. Never heard a word. It was heavy and bought a grand total of $15 at the scrape yard.
I'll kind of let you know as we get further into this, we are getting the parts off on a dirt floor, but under cover, with a trap it's not bad and I got a young fellow doing all the down under stuff, he's in his late 50's.
Having fun.
You do know you make my head hurt with all this information. Thanks! LOL
Wayne
 
Well, my head hurts a bit less every time I "unload" this information to someone who asks! :laugh: But feel free to continue asking. I know a fair number of people who have done this, and I'm oh-so-slowly doing it myself, thanks to large piles of 1970 GT6+ parts and a 1970 Spitfire Mk3 tub I bought about 35 years ago!
 
Andy, wow, you are doing the same thing. Interesting, if you go the rotoflex way and need any of these parts just say the word. The one we are looking at this weekend may be a saver, will get back with you on that. Radiator went to the shop today, progress.
I have a buddy that has a Sport Six in need of serious work and I've watched it dissolve into the ground for 30 years. It really gets me upset as I tired to convince him to sell it to me or let me find a buyer. I will try again, the slant lights are just too unusual not to keep around.

Rainy day here, clean up the garage and buff out the Jag.


Wayne
 
Wayne, mine is an extremely long-term project. It started when my son was still in high school (graduated in 2009), but then he got too interested in the music side of his high school and then college experience, so it got sidelined. I was lucky enough to start with a GT6+ given to me by a friend: solid chassis with good running gear but horrible, rusted body (i.e., no guilt in discarding same) and missing gearbox. Fortunately, I've a good supply of stuff from that and a couple other cars' worth of parts!

As for that Sports 6, I would be very interested in details of the car (commission, engine and body numbers, and paint and trim colors) for my Database, and I encourage him/you/whomever to do something with it before it dissolves completely. They are very, very cool cars! :cooler:
 
Andy, We should get there in the next year, maybe. I will get those numbers for you in the next couple of weeks, he lives in the boonies and is a SCCA official, always gone somewhere.

Funny you mentioned about no transmission. Can "we" put the bell housing off the GT6 on a single rail. The reason I ask, Old great one, to release your brain of cramping information, we had put the single rail in the Spitfire years ago with new cut and balanced driveshaft. The driveshaft may have to be reworked or use the one out of the GT6, what do you think? I have an extra bell housing from a old GT6 if you need it. OORRR, maybe cut the front off a TR6 tranny, got a few of those. Hate rainy days, always gets me in trouble.

Thanks for letting me pick you brain, Wayne
 
Maybe if that single-rail were out of a Dolomite 1850 or Sprint or possibly an early TR7? I'm not sure about any of those, but I know it won't work with a Spitfire single-rail box. Two major problems: 1. gear ratios are all wrong for the torque of the six; and 2. the input shafts differ greatly in both size and number of splines between single-rail Spitfire and GT6 gearboxes.
 
OK Andy, back to the drawing board. Maybe we can recoup some money by selling the single rail and engine out of the Spitfire, I'll bet he would be sorry if he did that. I did have a 7 gearbox somewhere. I know the TR6 might work, so I need to measure, I think the later ones had the same kind of mount as the Spitfire, and I have one of those, save some effort. We were going to put in the TR6 and gearbox, but I told him the frame would have to be hammered in or plated where the slave would be hitting. The ones I've seen looked out of place.

The best conversion I have ever seen was a complete Camaro drive train cut down to fit under a TR7 body, HOLD ON! Old NASCAR guy did it, Lucky Carson, he could never leave anything alone.

Thanks, now I can relax, don't have to think about that anymore.

Wayne
 
This topic came up on an e-mail list today. Some folks, including Ted Schumacher, seem to think a TR7 box would work with little effort. Others seem to think it's more than a little effort. Again, I don't know...but I would think Ted would know as well as just about anyone!
 
Andy, Have you met Ted? He thinks everything is easy.
He ran a TR6 in IMSA Camel GT years ago and the whole rear was a 280Z and according to him almost a bolt in. The 6 and Z did have the same U-joint and some have used the aluminum finned rear hubs of the early models, a little filling of the holes and it does work. I checked Auto Zone about a year ago and they still list them. Great guy and more than willing to help all comers, hope he is doing well.

Andy, going to let the wife and buddy handle the GT6 buy this weekend, she has been working by my side on these things for 54 years, I trust her judgment. I have had a golf trip planned for a couple of months, so talk to you in a few days.
Any thoughts or direction is all appreciated, thanks again for checking.

Wayne
 
Hi Andy, back early, rained out today, only because the course was closed, we play when going that far. Rain in the forecast for all day tomorrow, enough, homeward bound.

The GT6 on sale today was nothing short of a pile of rust and setting on the ground. The pictures showed it on all four wheels and setting on concrete, it was in a field with the frame on the ground. He left a $100 bid and don't know yet. Why bother if you are letting it rot away. Shame.

I will up date in the next day or two, Thanks all, Wayne
 
Hi all, didn't get the GT6, no big lose.
Good news on the one we have, frame is very fixable and we are going that way. We will have the GT6 rear, a little softer ride and save moving mounting locations, towers and have the bigger brakes in the rear. The trailing arm bracket on the rear body panel will need to be moved over, but the holes are already in the body with plugs in them, just cut, bolt up and spot weld it in place and leave the other one there. Since the arm has the adjustment in it I will just set the reinforcement plate on top of the body panel and align as necessary.

Real glad it worked out, we can sand blast and paint this frame, saving a good Spitfire frame and drive train for someone else. I know we are going to run across lots of "Darn we forgot we have to do this", so hang with me and I will keep you updated.

Wayne
 
See, there you go again. LOL. Never been a fan of the way Triumph did that and don't really know right now. Worse case, cut it off the GT6 and weld it on the Spitfire with a backing plate on the body panel. Looking at doing a bracket off the frame that runs all the way across. Make a cardboard mockup and if it looks good have it cut out of 1/8 inch steel. It's a little ways down the road and must be given a priority thought.
What do you think? Be a shame to get that far and come to a stop because it won't work like we planned.
The '73 GT6 would have been a better choice, but not many of those around that you would want to junk, if you could find one.
Thanks, now my head hurts.

Wayne
 
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