So what does a restoration really cost these days?

[vagt6]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

Pedro es un bien amigo, pero yo no quiero el coche de Pedro: es muy malo IMHO. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wall.gif

 

[NutmegCT]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

My 2¢ ...

Does your friend really know what he wants, and what he's getting into? He has wrenching skills and/or a reliable local shop? He has "little british car" experience already? And if money is at all an issue, there's some serious thinking ahead. If money is "available" - then jump right into the abyss!

Have a mechanic who knows Triumphs go along to inspect the car *before* any offer to purchase. Believe it or not, there are some folks who buy blind, never confront the seller with the lies that were neatly packaged in "the deal", and then spend a gazillion bucks. But if the money's there already - then it might be some real fun.

How many times have you read an ebay car description that says "I am selling this car because I have other projects that prevent me from doing the restoration for the next five years." (Those words are taken from this TR4 ad.) Five years - that means something, especially if the seller has restoration/wrenching experience. Compare what the seller says needs doing, with what your mechanic says needs doing.

My first priority while looking for my TR was to get something I'd enjoy for restoration and for driving. And that I could handle both the wrenching and the paying of the restoration part. I'm not a mechanic, I know zilch about body work, I don't have a garage, there's no shop within 10 miles, my income is $1100/mo, so I did all the work myself. But none of that work would have been possible without the incredible help of BCF members here.

This thread should be a "sticky" for reference to all those beginner's "Is this a good idea?" questions. Bravo!

Tom

 

[BryanC]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

you can easily top out $70,000. for a daily driver.

I also did the majority of the work myself.

So, you're saying that you've put something like $50,000 worth of parts into your car so far?

Bryan

 

[cmacmillan]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

These quirky, unreliable Triumph beasts get in your blood,
that's for sure.

That explains the LBC infection - must result from the numerous cuts and scrapes...they literally get in the blood!

It's all what you're into - my mother's cousin bought a showroom 6 after his RX7 caught fire - he had the $$$ and isn't interested in mechanical work...that's cool, but I'm more for the project side of things - not a mechanical bone in my body, but I'm bent on learning.

I guess the best thing for the TR4 friend to do is weigh all these considerations - mechanical vs. body work, solid driver vs. showroom, immediate driving vs. upfront necessities.

When I bought mine, I had to resist the temptation to buy immediately and really look for the problems and decide whether I was willing to put in the time to fix them.

 

[billspit]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

If someone can't do their own repairs or at least is good friends with someone who can, I cannot recommend them buying a British car. Buy a BMW Z3 instead. It will be cheaper, run better, have AC and a good top. There are few mechanics out there now who will take in Brit cars. After I got my TR3 and got reamed on the first repair, I learned to work on them myself.

As far as restoration cost, I have over $8,000 in receipts for parts alone in my 64 Spitfire. And some of those costs are 1990 prices. I have done all of the work myself except for reassembling the differential. I would be fortunate to get 5k for it now.

So Mark if you are interested in a Spitfire give me a shout out. I don't really want to sell it, but the "free" Spitfire I got from Paul Slice on this site is starting to cost some bucks. And I need the space.

 

[vagt6]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

Thanks, Bill. Right now I'm looking for, in no real order, one of these LBCs:

GT6+/MKII;
MG Midget (with a 1275, MK III if poss);
Sprite, ditto.

Depends on the condition as to which I purchase. I've never had a roadster before, and I've always loved Spridgets. Ideally, a nicely sorted MKIII Spridget would be my first choice.

If anyone knows about one, let me know.

 

[RobT]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

My rule of thumb:

For every $1 you spend on the car, you *might* increase its value by 50c. And that does not include the labor.

But for me its all about the therapeutic benefits of working on old cars, and the sense of achievement from doing it right. My wife thinks I'm nuts (but is supportive anyway) but I just love spending a couple hours tinkering on the old beast. Zen and the art of LBC repair (or something like that).

 

[eejay56]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

I think my experience is exceptional. I had no LBC experience but have always done my own wrenching (I had 7 VWs in my younger days). November of 06 I bought my 78 Spitfire for $2750. It was the second car I looked at. 64000 miles,rust free, new top, new carpet, ran a little rough. I've put about 12000 miles on it and would be surprised if I've spent $1000 on parts. I fix it up as budget permits and maintain it lovingly. It still needs seats, paint, the door panels are getting a little rough but I love driving it and have to allow extra time on my errands because somebody always wants to talk to me about it. If it was a seldom running money hole I would still love it, but I wouldn't get to enjoy it as much. You can't look at it as an investment, it's an act of love.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

Experiences and results vary widely, but certainly a patient buyer has an advantage as waiting will eventually turn up a special car.

In my opinion buying the best example you can find of the car you want usually makes the most sense. I was able to buy my TR4 (not restored but nice original condition) for $1000 more than the paint job on my TR3.

Both my TRs really need nothing... still I set aside a $1000 per year to do things on them and have no trouble spending that much.

 

[Guest]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

For a $ figure, I talked to a friend of mine. He bought a TR6 freshly painted with a rebuilt engine for $5000. It needed 'reassembly'.

$12000 in parts later (and he did almost all the work) he has a nice reliable driver.

The engine was rebuilt btw - he didn't spend a penny there, nor on the diff or the tranny. He did have to patch one of the trailing arms though.

The 12k was mostly parts costs...

 

[NickMorgan]

22 years ago I bought a TR3A for restoration. It needed EVERYTHING. New chassis, engine, interior, electrics, etc, etc. I did all of the work bar the re-spray myself. It took me 9 years and cost me $40,000. I then sold it for $22,000. I didn't really mind the loss as for $2,000 a year I enjoyed the project.
The main problem was not being able to drive and enjoy this car, so I bought a scruffy TR3A to run around in. 16 years later I still have the car and I have gradually improved it. So far it has cost me just under $22,000.
These costs are maybe a little out of date now and TR values are higher over here than in the States.
It all depends on what your friend wants. A car to drive or a car to fiddle with.
Whatever he wants buy carefully. Some restoration projects are a great basis for a rebuild while others, like mine, will require a great deal of work. Similarly, some rebuilt cars are not as good as others!

 

[Earl]

After graduating from college in 1973 I put my "rough but drivable" 61 TR3A in a barn. Three years ago, just after my father passed away,my two teenage sons looked at the TR and asked if they could get it running. I shrugged but realized nothing would have made my dad happier than seeing that old car running agin. Seven months later, new paint job $800.00, rebuilt carbs $450.00, electronic ignition, $150.00, brake rebuild $75.00, Top from ebay, $125.00, about 250 hours of body work (most of it me teaching them), rebuilt fender bottoms, floor pan and various additional items, $800, 4 wire wheels with good usable tread, $285 ebay, we got her running. (There is nothing like the first time we fired up that tractor engine without the exhaust at 2:30 AM in a residential area. Us and the neighboors still laugh)
She is not a show car, but she is what these cars were/are all about. A great little fun car.
Could I sell her, probably get around $6,000, would I, not for $600,000.
Its the trip not the destination.

 

[Fairview]

What an informative thread and thanks for so much good input. I hope it doesn't discourage anybody from restoring a decent TR, though.
It does strengthen my argument to my friend to buy the best car available. It is a fair bet that it will cost less in the long run.
This should also do away with the logic of restoring a car "to get the best price".

 

[jjbunn]

"Buy the best you can afford"

I've said it before here, and I'll say it again: IMHO this ranks as one the most useless pieces of advice: it has zero practical use!

Say you have a choice of two cars, and one is half the price of the other, but has a hole in the fabric of the driver's seat. Then, according to the "best you can afford" rule, you should buy the more expensive one!!!

I feel like I'm missing the point of this old chestnut!

 

[Tinster]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

you can easily top out $70,000. for a daily driver.

I also did the majority of the work myself.

So, you're saying that you've put something like $50,000 worth of parts into your car so far?

Bryan

Sad but true, Bryan- I recently crossed the $46k line:
orig. cost, parts, paid labor, shipping, tools, mechanics
who got paid and never performed work, lift rentals, etc.
I performed the majority of the labor myself. The
professionals finished off my poor attempts at wrenching.

My case is unusual I admit but others have suffered similar
costly ordeals.

BTW: after 25 months of costly restoration , I now have
1,192 miles on the odometer to show for it- w/out a
breakdown.

I'm very happy with the car; a bit of a fool I was taken
so badly by Pedro's scam.

 

[NutmegCT]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

Fairview - this thread has shown some really excellent viewpoints.

But to me it all boils down to "what car do you really want" and "what do you really want to do with it".

Unless someone's in it *only* for investment purposes /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif, there's a lot to be said for wrenching on your own. May be hard to put a dollar amount on, but there's some excellent "internal" value in doing it yourself - and seeing the result.

It's 2pm EST. After weeks of miserable cold, wet weather, it's sunny today. I just went out to my TR, primed the pump, turned the key, warmed the battery, set the "choke", then hit the button. Three seconds later it was firing smoothly.

I just sat there for about 10 minutes, rpm around 2500. What a *great* feeling it was to look at the engine, the interior, the wiring, etc., and know that it's running (and looking!) so much better than when I got it one year ago. And I did it myself (with BCF guiding me every darn step of the way).

The feeling: priceless.

Tom

 

[jessebogan]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

I just have to chime in here. The key to success as a hobbiest is to either have real deep pockets, mechanical skills, or be willing to learn them. These cars were built in an era when parts were expensive, and labor was cheap. The opposite is true now. Although parts for LBC's May seem expensive, give a porsche dealer a call. They are a real good value, and availability is OUTSTANDING for 40 to 50 year old cars. Labor is another matter. I charge 91.50 an hour, and am at the local median price. You can spend THOUSANDS of hours on one of these cars with a chassis up resto. I always tell people to just buy the absolute best car that you can. Even if it needs more work, the better it is, the better off you are. I have a friend that does high end restorations on more or less expensive cars. An Etype resto can run to better than 100K. He recently did a 66 beetle from a POS beat car (family owned sentimental value thing) and it ran almost 60K!!They could have bought a nice done car for what 12K ,15K at the most?? So, buy a nice, COMPLETE car, that already runs and drives, and is NOT rusty, and you will be starting much closer to the finish line.

 

[Brosky]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

Julian,

No disrespect to your post, which does have some merit, but if a buyer can't distinguish what a better value is in a situation like that, they have a much bigger problem than getting a good car to start with.

Many times, people get into car restorations that they can't deal with because it seemed like the right thing to do at the time, even though it may not have been a fit for them either economically, or based on their (real, not imagined) mechanical aptitude and ability.

Jesse explains it well above.

 

[Tinster]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

And many thanks to YOU, Jesse !!
Your professional instructions and diagnostics were
a big factor in turning my DPO Pedro POS car in a fun
ittle red beast that everyone enjoys seeing roaring
around Bayamon.

I still am convinced old cars are not for the weak of finger or weak of wallet crowd.

D

 

[jjbunn]

Re: So what does a restoration really cost these d

Julian,

No disrespect to your post, which does have some merit, but if a buyer can't distinguish what a better value is in a situation like that, they have a much bigger problem than getting a good car to start with.

Many times, people get into car restorations that they can't deal with because it seemed like the right thing to do at the time, even though it may not have been a fit for them either economically, or based on their (real, not imagined) mechanical aptitude and ability.

Jesse explains it well above.

I understand your point, but I was trying to highlight the inadequacy of the advice to "buy the best you can afford" by use of an extreme example. Typically when considering one of these old cars, the choice isn't so obvious ... the "best" is such a complicated equation to evaluate, and so subjective, the potential buyer isn't helped by being told to pick the "best" s/he can afford.

My advice, based on negligible experience compared with most of you here, is to post a question on this forum ... "Which of these cars do you advise me to buy, and why?" It worked for me ... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif