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Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessary ?
- Thread starter karls59tr
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Don Elliott
Obi Wan
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I can't say for sure, but lots of TR6 owners have reported that it really sends a lot of oil up to the rocker shaft and lubes the rockers really well. But the oil pressure available for the main bearings and the con-rods drops to the point that there is some concern that the crankshaft will not get enough oil and it's a bigger failure.
If you are touring at normal speeds, stay with the original oil feed to the rockers. I've done 174,000 miles on my rocker shaft, cam shaft etc. with no problems. In the past 16 summers, I've driven 94,000 miles and had no problems.
Have you heard the old engineering statement, "If it ain't broke, why try to fix it ?".
If you are touring at normal speeds, stay with the original oil feed to the rockers. I've done 174,000 miles on my rocker shaft, cam shaft etc. with no problems. In the past 16 summers, I've driven 94,000 miles and had no problems.
Have you heard the old engineering statement, "If it ain't broke, why try to fix it ?".
Brosky
Great Pumpkin
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Re: Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessar
If you have an alloy valve cover without a baffle, it's a great way to start using a quart of oil every three hundred miles.
These stains on the paper in front of the manifold is oil that drain out of the manifold when I swapped mine over to triple carbs. The line came off right after that.
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If you have an alloy valve cover without a baffle, it's a great way to start using a quart of oil every three hundred miles.
These stains on the paper in front of the manifold is oil that drain out of the manifold when I swapped mine over to triple carbs. The line came off right after that.
Got_All_4
Luke Skywalker
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MAKING CHANCES ALWAYS SEAMS TO INVITE OTHER PROBLEMS. DEPENDING ON IF YOU HAVE A FRESH MOTOR OR ONE WITH MANY MILES ON IT. IT DOES TEND TO FLOOD THE ROCKERS WITH OIL. SO IF YOUR VALVE GUIDES ARE A BIT WORN YOU WILL GET MORE OIL PAST THEM AND BURN SOME OIL. ON THE OTHER HAND IF YOU HAVE A LATER CAR OR ANY YEAR WITH A ALLOY ROCKER COVER THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE OIL BAFFLE ON THE INSIDE OF THE ROCKER COVER THAT COVERS THE HOLE FOR THE EMISSION HOSES. THE OIL GETS SUCKED INTO THE CARBS AND SOMETIMES SATURATES THE AIR FILTER AND OIL GETS INTO THE CYLINDERS THIS WAY TOO. I HAVE A COMPLETELY FRESH MOTOR WITH ROLLER ROCKERS WHICH ARE BIG $ SO I HAVE THE OIL LINE TO PROTECT THE ROLLERS. I ALSO INSTALLED VALVE GUIDE SEALS TOO TO LESSEN THE PROBLEMS. THE ROCKERS ONLY GET MOMENTARY OIL PRESSER FROM THE LAST BEARING ON THE CAM. THERE IS A FLAT SPOT ON THE CAM BEARING SURFACE AND WHEN THAT FLAT ROTATES TO THE OIL PORT IT SENDS OIL TO THE ROCKERS. SEAMS TO ME IT'S ONLY 30 DEGREES. NOT A LOT OF OIL FOR SOMETHING THAT HAS THAT KIND OF MECHANICAL PRESSURES ON IT. GOOD LUCK.
TR674
Jedi Warrior
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Re: Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessar
I have one fitted to my TR6 by the previous owner who used the car on the race track only.
Despite a few oil leaks from the 'olive' fittings, I have left mine connected, even though I have never taken it out to the track.
I'm not sure what benefit it would offer for normal road use.
Regards
Craig
I have one fitted to my TR6 by the previous owner who used the car on the race track only.
Despite a few oil leaks from the 'olive' fittings, I have left mine connected, even though I have never taken it out to the track.
I'm not sure what benefit it would offer for normal road use.
Regards
Craig
Re: Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessar
I installed one a few years back and noticed no decrease in oil pressure whatsoever. This spring I finally went to a an alloy valve cover. So what's better? Lubricate the valve train, or get rid of the pretty valve cover? This is a serious dilemna. An engine has to look pretty right?
I installed one a few years back and noticed no decrease in oil pressure whatsoever. This spring I finally went to a an alloy valve cover. So what's better? Lubricate the valve train, or get rid of the pretty valve cover? This is a serious dilemna. An engine has to look pretty right?
Brosky
Great Pumpkin
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Re: Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessar
Ned,
I had my rocker arm shaft off two years ago and there was virtually no wear on the arms or shaft. But, our oil has been changed every 1,500 miles or every season, so it has never suffered from any lack of clean oil.
Also, I have very good oil pressure, both with and without the line.
Maybe if I install roller rockers when I swap the head this winter, I'll put it back, now that I have my original valve cover back on after chrome plating.
Ned,
I had my rocker arm shaft off two years ago and there was virtually no wear on the arms or shaft. But, our oil has been changed every 1,500 miles or every season, so it has never suffered from any lack of clean oil.
Also, I have very good oil pressure, both with and without the line.
Maybe if I install roller rockers when I swap the head this winter, I'll put it back, now that I have my original valve cover back on after chrome plating.
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Re: Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessar
From all the many discussions I've seen over the years about these kits, my conclusion is that they are, at best, a band-aid fix. Consensus seems to be that any lack of lubrication in that area is as likely due to wear, clogged or blocked oil passages, etc., so simply feeding more oil from an external source (and possibly robbing that other source of needed oil and pressure) is NOT the solution.bunzil said:
MGTF1250Dave
Jedi Knight
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Aloha Karl,
I had one on my TR3A for about a year and recently removed it about two months ago.
I did not notice any loss of oil pressure after installing the external oil line. This is based on the installed oil pressure gauge. It does seem to send a good amount of oil up to the cylinder head. This observation is based on several leaks around the valve cover and oil drips from the oil filter/breather cap. I also noted blue smoke from the exhaust on start up indicating oil burning in the cylinders. I also seemed to need to top up the crank case more frequently. Although I didn't keep accurate records, I would agree with Paul it was about a quart every 300 miles.
Since I removed the line the many minor leaks around the head have gone away, the blue smoke on start up has gone away and the filler cap/breather has stayed clean.
If you want to install this line, i would recommend you install valve stem seals. These are simple o-rings that go around the valve stem and rest on top of the valve guide. This should reduce oil leaking into the cylinders.
My MG's XPAG engine '40s-'50s vintage is stock with an external oil line to the cylinder head and valve stem seals are also stock. This modification to the Triumph engine seems to be a technical feature of the period.
I had one on my TR3A for about a year and recently removed it about two months ago.
I did not notice any loss of oil pressure after installing the external oil line. This is based on the installed oil pressure gauge. It does seem to send a good amount of oil up to the cylinder head. This observation is based on several leaks around the valve cover and oil drips from the oil filter/breather cap. I also noted blue smoke from the exhaust on start up indicating oil burning in the cylinders. I also seemed to need to top up the crank case more frequently. Although I didn't keep accurate records, I would agree with Paul it was about a quart every 300 miles.
Since I removed the line the many minor leaks around the head have gone away, the blue smoke on start up has gone away and the filler cap/breather has stayed clean.
If you want to install this line, i would recommend you install valve stem seals. These are simple o-rings that go around the valve stem and rest on top of the valve guide. This should reduce oil leaking into the cylinders.
My MG's XPAG engine '40s-'50s vintage is stock with an external oil line to the cylinder head and valve stem seals are also stock. This modification to the Triumph engine seems to be a technical feature of the period.
Brosky
Great Pumpkin
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Re: Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessar
Ned,
I don't think that it improves "oil pressure" up top as much as adds a greater volume of oil to the top of the engine. But as Andy and others have pointed out, "at what other cost"?
Again, I saw no difference in oil pressure with the addition of the line, but man did I see oil in my intake manifold. Remember, I had an aluminum cover with no baffle at the time.
If someone has low oil pressure due to worn main bearings, blocked galleys or simply a worn oil pump, this will not help, because something else will starve to supply more oil to the top.
If I do go to new roller rockers when I swap out my head, I'll drop the oil pan and install a brand new oil pump, which is safely tucked away in my new spares bin.
Ned,
I don't think that it improves "oil pressure" up top as much as adds a greater volume of oil to the top of the engine. But as Andy and others have pointed out, "at what other cost"?
Again, I saw no difference in oil pressure with the addition of the line, but man did I see oil in my intake manifold. Remember, I had an aluminum cover with no baffle at the time.
If someone has low oil pressure due to worn main bearings, blocked galleys or simply a worn oil pump, this will not help, because something else will starve to supply more oil to the top.
If I do go to new roller rockers when I swap out my head, I'll drop the oil pan and install a brand new oil pump, which is safely tucked away in my new spares bin.
G
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Re: Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessar
Ahhmm, Paul, shouldn't that be when I go to roller rockers, and of course, GP2 cam.......
Methinks you wrote that post on what wives say anticipating what the wife will say.
Go for it, lad.
Brosky said:
Ahhmm, Paul, shouldn't that be when I go to roller rockers, and of course, GP2 cam.......
Methinks you wrote that post on what wives say anticipating what the wife will say.
Go for it, lad.
vettedog72
Jedi Knight
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The last time I had the head in the machine shop for guides, valve lap, spring checks and another .060" milled off the head, I was told by the machinist that he removes about as many valve stem seals as he installs. He said they were removed because the seals starve the stems for oil. My alloy cover will shoot a bit of oil out the breather pipe with the OEM rocker lube set up. It is still in the test mode so I have not fitted any PCV system up. With near 85K miles on the rockers and shaft, they did not look warn enough to replace.
I am surprised there is not a quick fix kit available to drill and screw a few holes into the alloy cover, around the breather pipe, to mount a baffle that would hold a bit of wire mesh preventing the liquid from escape. Even easier, a bit of preformed "tin" that would go under the existing shaft attaching bolts could baffle the oil from the vent pipe. Gosh, it could be called a "wind tray" like mussel car parts.
I am surprised there is not a quick fix kit available to drill and screw a few holes into the alloy cover, around the breather pipe, to mount a baffle that would hold a bit of wire mesh preventing the liquid from escape. Even easier, a bit of preformed "tin" that would go under the existing shaft attaching bolts could baffle the oil from the vent pipe. Gosh, it could be called a "wind tray" like mussel car parts.
YankeeTR
Luke Skywalker
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The extra oil line is required to help the aftermarket parts suppliers increase their profit margins by offering parts that are not needed to people who don't need them.
50% of the Moss catalog (and others) is devoted to items that are not necessary for the proper operation of your Triumph.
50% of the Moss catalog (and others) is devoted to items that are not necessary for the proper operation of your Triumph.
tomshobby
Yoda
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I am installing an auxiliary feed. I have also wondered if it might help lube the cam and lifters. I know the cam lobes and lifters pretty much depend on oil from the bottom end, but more on top might be helpful.
I will be using the original valve cover and Goodparts oil separator and a silicone cover gasket.
I will also have valve seals. But I am installing new bronze guides, both from Goodparts. As I understand, the original guides depended on the lead in the gasoline for lube. Since there is no longer lead in the gas there is no longer lubrication unless they get oil from above. And if there is sufficient wear in the guides there will be plenty of blue smoke and oil in the intake (blow-by helps too). The 70's GM v-6's were notorious for this to the point of filling the air cleaner with oil. The bronze guides supposedly address this problem.
I will be using the original valve cover and Goodparts oil separator and a silicone cover gasket.
I will also have valve seals. But I am installing new bronze guides, both from Goodparts. As I understand, the original guides depended on the lead in the gasoline for lube. Since there is no longer lead in the gas there is no longer lubrication unless they get oil from above. And if there is sufficient wear in the guides there will be plenty of blue smoke and oil in the intake (blow-by helps too). The 70's GM v-6's were notorious for this to the point of filling the air cleaner with oil. The bronze guides supposedly address this problem.
The TR6 has never had enough oil to the top end and with a motor in good condition has more than enough oil pressure to feed the aux. oil line with no problems (you do need good valve guides and seals). -----I had a baffle welded to the inside of my alloy cover, it is a 1/8" x 1 1/4" flat aluminum plate running along the inside of the cover stopping short at both ends of the cover by 3/4", this allows the engine to vent without blowing oil out, it made a big difference.
G
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Re: Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessar
Or, I added the GoodParts oil separator and that did the trick for me.
ALLAN said:
Or, I added the GoodParts oil separator and that did the trick for me.
Re: Rockershaft Auxillary Oil Feed..Is it necessar
Unlikely the cam is exposed to a huge amount of oil being blow around from the bottom, the tiny amount you could add is irrelevant and in the wrong location in any case.
The lead does not lube the valve guides, it was supposed to help protect the exhaust valve seat. (where the valve touches the head) I would think twice about the bronze guides, they expand significantly more than the standard iron type and can cause cracking in the engine head.
tomshobby said:
Unlikely the cam is exposed to a huge amount of oil being blow around from the bottom, the tiny amount you could add is irrelevant and in the wrong location in any case.
tomshobby said:
The lead does not lube the valve guides, it was supposed to help protect the exhaust valve seat. (where the valve touches the head) I would think twice about the bronze guides, they expand significantly more than the standard iron type and can cause cracking in the engine head.