Rivergate 5 speed conversion questions

[jlaird]

Should have a pic of that silicone. That would be priceless.

 

[PeterC]

Hap, I haven't seen the RG seal kit, at least that I know is theirs. I have seen some, though. All that involve a rubber lipped seal running on a flywheel flange are flawed. It's a case of applying modern technology to older systems without engineering, in my opinion. None work.

I have used one system from Paul Asgeirsson "Paul Asgeirsson" <PAsgeirsson@worldnet.att.net> of Morriservice in Portland OR that is very simple, very elegant, and has worked for me 100%. He's a great guy. (pronounced Ask-her-son) Hap, PM me if you want details.

Peter

 

[Bugeye_Al]

Hmmm...Has Rivergate put out multiple versions of their seal design? I just installed mine last week. The kit was purchased several years ago, but I was not provided a new piece to bolt to the block above the rear main cap as Hap has described above. My understanding is you use the stock piece thus maintaing the original scroll seal.

I'm an amature at this stuff, but my understanding of RG's system is as follows:

The seal bolts to the rear of the new engine plate and the seal edge seals around the flange where the flywheel bolts. (This surface was not designed for a seal and any flaws could negate any benefits.)

The silicone serves two purposes per RG's instructions. First it replaces the gasket normally found bewteen the block and stock engine plate to seal better and "provide uniform thickness". Second, and this is the big iffy part in my opinion, you are suppose to fill the void between the block and new engine plate, being sure to fill the joint towards the bottom edge of the void. I don't have the instructions in front of me, but I think they specifically tell you not to build the silicone up onto the crankshaft or crankshaft flange.

In theory, any oil leak coming through the stock "scroll" seal will get trapped in the void between the block and the new seal. So I don't understand is how the RG seal can make a leak worse with the possible exception the gobs of silicone failing at any place it is suppose to seal between the engine block and rear plate.

Oh well, we'll see if I have to pull the engine out later. This is my first rebuild, so if the darn thing starts, I'll be happy.

Allen

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Allen,
that is how I remember mine. And, as I said earlier, it stopped the leak for a few hundred miles then it resumed leaking like before. Quarter size spot... no big deal to me.

 

[justaguy]

I guess I am extremely lucky... I have the Rivergate kit in my Midget and have around 4000 mile on it so far... No a drop of oil spilled from the rear. I did not install the plate myself. I had the long-block built by Rivergate & they installed the adapter plate for me. I remember that there were several versions of the seal so maybe you have an old style???? I would suggest giving them a call. Any time I have called them about anything they were very helpful. Good Luck...

 

[spritenut]

Rivergate installed a tranny on the BABE rally car because that car blew a tranny near their shop.
When I took the car apart, I found probably 3 tubes of silicone pumped into and around the back plate.
I never saw so much in my life. And it still leaked even with the rubber seal around the crank shaft and gobs of silicone.
No offense Trevor but to me, it's hill billy mechanics.
You don't even want to know what they used for a shift boot!

 

[Morris]

Ummmm... since you brought it up, now I absolutely must know what they used for a shift boot.

 

[fordtrucks4ever]

[ QUOTE ]
Nope,I remember the silicon, and thinking how loose the seal was around the flange.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying the seal is centered by the crank and loose fit is filled with silicne surrrounding it? Or the seal isnt very snug on crank? Does someone have some good pics of this setup they can post? I would like to get a better picture of how its made.

 

[Westfield_XI]

That was my original question. Where is the leakage coming from? Is it from seal to shaft of rom elsewhere? I have heard some strong opinions but no specifics. Also no one has answered my question regarding the size of this leak. a drop a minute? a teaspoon? a teacup? a teapot? heck, I've never owned anything British that didn't leak including a boat, it's just a matter of how much.....
When I get home I can post the RG instructions and a photo of the seal if anyone is interested. What is the design of the Morriservice seal kit? Is it completely different to the RG?
Also what results have anyone had with the Phantom Grip? Does it work? Is it worth $400.00? Any installation tricks or comments?

 

[Taz]

Paul at Morriservice dose not recommend a external seal. Here is picture of his kit. It uses the stock scroll seal. I have his kit in my car. no problems. He may have a seal kit, but if I remember you have to machine the block to install it. and he dose not recommend it unless you are doing a complete rebuild.

 

[zimmy]

silicone and oil is like a duck in the water...it just wont stick!....z

 

[fordtrucks4ever]

Anyone know how thick the adapter plate is???

 

[Taz]

Did not measure it. Its pretty thick, much thicker than the stock steel. It has offsets machined into it. If no one has a measurement ,when I get down to the garage later I will get a measurement

Taz

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Talk to BillM on spritespot.com, he made has ownadapter from steel.

On a side note, I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been edited for violating Basil's rules.

 

[msoylemez]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also I contribute the cork pan rail gasket to leaks as well, make sure you buy the more expensive Payen gasket set with the rubber pan gaskets, that seems to help alot on these motors, so in otherwords avoid the cheap gasket sets, Gordon at the B Hive and Rob and Dave at Winners Circle can get the Payen gasket sets for you, I won't build a 1275 without them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive me for the ignorant question--when you say pan rail gasket, what exactly are you referring to? Oil pan gasket?

 

[jlaird]

Well we hope he is speeking of the valve cover, other wise dope it up if it is indeed the oil pan.

 

[Billm]

Actually I am here too. My adapter plate is 3/8" thick aluminum which when bolted to the original 1275 plate makes it 5/8" thick total- the same as Morrisservice's (his is one-piece @ 5/8" thick) so I'll bet that Rivergate's is also 5/8" total thick.
Bill (M)

 

[kcbugeye1275]

I said it before and I'll say it again, in the next couple weeks I'll tear down a motor with a rivergate 5 speed and I'll really look at all this with interest. The motor in the car now was a swap meet special,has been a pretty strong motor, but it leaks a lot of oil.

 

[JerryB]

Re: HIJACKING the ...Rivergate 5 speed conversion

""""""""""buy the more expensive Payen gasket set with the rubber pan gaskets, """""""""

""""""""""Well we hope he is speeking of the valve cover, other wise dope it up if it is indeed the oil pan. """""

Hap is referring to the oil pan gasket set which uses RUBBER end seals rather than the square cut cork end seals that you have to roll in and trim the tops of.

Surely HAP is befuzzled because of too much REAR SPRING rate conversation in the last few days.....

 

[jlaird]

Re: HIJACKING the ...Rivergate 5 speed conversion

Sense when does oil leak through cork. Never had any problem with them. They are like old friends.