TR2/3/3A Re-assembling 1954 TR-2 Engine

[Redoakboo]

I have just received my long block back from the builder with all new bearings, pistons/rings, front & rear seals. To complete the block I have the Front Engine Plate, Front Cam Bearing, Cam Gear,Timing Chain, Oil Pump, Distributor, Flywheel, Oil Pan and Timing Cover to install. I do have the TR Mtc Manual, and alittle past TR engine experience.

Any helpful hints , other then installing the Front Engine Plate, Oil Pan and Timing Cover with be greatly appreciated. I do need some help in installing the Cam Gear and Timing Chain correctly. The Oil Pump install appears straight forward. The valves have been adjusted by the builder and assume there is not something else i need to do with the valve timing.

You guys have been great in the past in trouble shooting my posts.

Dick Vinal

 

[bobhustead]

Make sure the timing chain and both sprockets are new. You can mark the alignment marks of the new sprockets by carefully stacking them, making sure to pay attention to "sidedness". (At least the cam sprocket goes on with either face down so you need to mark with the same orientation of the bolt holes to the teeth.)
Bob.

 

[Redoakboo]

Bob,

What is "Sidedness" ?

Dick

 

[sp53]

I remember when I got my first engine back from the machine shop in I think 1969. It was a 235 that went in green 4 Door 1957 chev with yellow interior and one of those stock yellow fuzzy headliners that people had laid on the seats and wrote many interesting thing on to think about.

My first suggestion would be to get the Haynes manual and study the engine rebuild and reassembly stuff; it has great pictures and will add to your other stuff. Are you saying the head is bolted on and bolted down?

There is an aluminum piece the bridges the front of the flat surface where the oil pan bolts and is connect to the front cover with 2 bolts through the front of the engine plate. This piece is tricky because it takes some cork gaskets on each end and needs quality car so there is not an oil leak. What kind of gasket sealer are you going to use? Is the oil pan flat on the bottom because if not I would peen it flat. Maybe set it a piece of glass or mirror to see how flat. Same with the timing cover. Take your time the engines are kinda simple and screw ups are not hard to reverse. I do not know your experience level, so I do not know what advice to give. How many year have you worked on engines? Or how many have you rebuilt? There could be a few things different on a tr2 other than a tr3 so take pictures to show what you mean if you get stuck. Not to be difficult, but I used my old timing gears on the last 4 tr3 engines I rebuilt because I do not trust the venders, but you never know sometimes the stuff is better, maybe.

 

[bobhustead]

The passage in paren is what I mean by sidedness. The cam sprocket's teeth are not in exactly the same position relative to the bolt holes if you flip the sprocket from side to side, and I think if you spin it 180 on the same side. This gives 4 possible orientations of the bolt holes to the teeth. I put the new sprocket atop the old on the bench and just dropped the bolts thru the holes to align the holes precisely and looked at the teeth to see that they aligned perfectly.

Bob

 

[bobhustead]

As for SP53's mention of the pan bolt holes, I lay the pan and timing cover on a wood block and hit each hole with the round end of a ball-peen hammer, putting a little bulge toward the side the bolts come from.Bob

 

[Redoakboo]

Thanks Darth,

I have rebuilt two TR's, a Ford Flathead and a Pontiac 400. I have both the Haynes as well as the original TR-2 manual. It has been quite a few years since I have tackled another engine. The car, a 54 long door, had been stored for 30 years inside a garage. I stripped the engine down to the long block. The engine was in excellent condition as it had been rebuilt, before it was parked with a major oil leak. The owner, an 88 year old man could remember NOTHING about what had been done to the engine. Before I sent it to a builder I had used in the past, I ran a compression check. All four cylinders were Spot On 165 !
The crank and cam were in excellent and had .10 over bearings. I had him replace all bearings, new pistons and rings, 83mm, .10 over.Oil pump was fine, new filter. Valves and tappets were good, did replace the cam bearings.
During the rebuild it was discovered that the rope seals around the rear seal were never installed; big oil leak!
I have the aluminum piece you addressed, it still had the cork gaskets in place. There seem to be some sort of silicon sleeve in the two attach holes, might just order a new one, with the cork "T" gaskets.
The cam sprocket is installed on the crank already, but not the one on the cam. I see the mark on the cam sprocket, but nothing on the crank sprocket? Hint on how to line these up?
What type of gasket sealer would you recommend?

Dick

 

[Redoakboo]

Bob,

I noticed the wear marks on the cam sprocket, from the cam bearing. I see a mark on this sprocket, but none on the ,installed, crank sprocket. Hint on aligning ?

Dick

 

[bobhustead]

Do you still have the old crank sprocket? If not, you will need to get the #1 cyl at tdc to determine where the mark needs to be (aligned exactly between the center of the crank and the center of the cam. This is not too hard to do, in that, with only 13 or so teeth on the cam sprocket, each tooth occupies almost 30 degrees of arc. It would thus be hard to miss by a tooth.

 

[Redoakboo]

Will try it tomorrow.With nothing on either end of the crank; other when the cam sprocket, best way to turn the crank? Guess I can tell when #1 is at TDC by rocker position?

Dick

 

[bobhustead]

If you don't have the valve train hooked up, rocker position has nothing to do with the crank. I would check the position of #1 piston with a probe in the plug hole to find the top. You can put a short bolt in the crank with a jam nut to turn the crank.
Bob

 

[Redoakboo]

Forgot those rockers are dormant without a timing chain. Will check tomorrow through the plug hole.

Thanks,

Dick

 

[2long]

If the motor is original then I don't think it had cam bearings? The early motors didn't, as identified by the absence of cam bearing retainer screws on the distributes side of the block.

Dan

 

[bobhustead]

I recall that there is available something that amounts to a dial indicator that screws into the spark plug hole and give a precise tdc.
Bob

 

[sp53]

I used the red sticky stuff you spray on for the front cover gasket, but many of the front cover gaskets are made of a quality product that could IMH go on dry because they are thick.
It would seem to me you could put the front cover on and then put the timing cover on just temporarily dry with no chain and the use the pointer on the timing cover and the front pulley hole then align the 2 for TDC and see where you are at. There is probably a mark or punch on the cam sprocket and a slash on the crank gear. I am not sure if the crank gear could go backwards or not that might be the case if you do not see a slash.

You might want to ask the builder how he set the rear seal because they are very trick and need a mandrel. You could still put on a Mad Max real seal in addition ( I did on this last motor)if you are concerned. I do not know if a tr2 takes a rope seal. I do not think so.

 

[sp53]

And look at the cam to make sure both valves number valves are closed and that the front pulley is assembled correctly with the woodruff key slot correct so you do not get some odd place for the pulley hole.

 

[TR3driver]

No need to install timing cover; if you want to check timing at the front then just put a length of coat hanger wire under one of the cover bolts and use it for a pointer. But the book gives a method to do it at the flywheel, which may be easier (no timing wheel required).

With the head on, you can make a piston stop by breaking the ceramic out of an old spark plug, tapping and threading in a bolt, then cut the bolt head off.

Head off, make up a strap to fit across two head studs, with a bolt head down to stop the piston from coming up.

Since an elementary mistake was made with the rear main cap (the "rope" is to seal the cap to the block), I would also want to double-check cam timing. As noted, flipping the cam gear around gets you 1/4 tooth adjustments.

Ditto for centering the rear seal. He may have just slapped it on and run the bolts in. Even the "pros" sometimes do stupid things.

 

[sp53]

Sounds like the rope seal if referring to the felt that is jammed down on both sides of the rear bearing cap after the felt has been dipped in gasket schlack then trimmed flat at the rear cap. In addition to that there are 2 aluminum halves that fit at the rear of the crank plus the crank shaft itself is scrolled to throw oil back into the engine as the engine is gathering RPMs. The aluminum halves have little groves that move the oil back also and the mandrel centers those plus there is a drain on the back bearing cap to let the oil drain back. Anyways if not done correctly it could leak a lot. They all leak a little. I seem to remember some engines on a different car actually taking a piece of some kind of rope for the rear seal. Perhaps your engine never had the gasket schlack or felt in the beginning, but it is something I would read up on and quiz the builder.

 

[Redoakboo]

I purchased the gasket set from Moss, and it had the rope seals in the set. It also came with the new set of aluminum halves; all installed during the rebuild.

 

[Redoakboo]

Randall,
I don't quite understand your making of a piston stop with a spark plug? Are you taping the spark plug? Why are you cutting the bolt head off? Ifyou will send me your email address, I would like to show you the present appearance of the block.

Dick redoakboo@yahoo.com