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Pinion nut torque help

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ichthos

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On my first time out, the drive line disengaged. Found out I hadn't tightened the pinion nut hard enough after replacing the bearing and seal. I am very lucky there was no damage - the universal joint flange just pulled forward. Don't like making the same mistake twice. The torque value in my manual is listed as 140 foot pounds for this nut. My torque wrench only goes to 75 pounds. A couple questions: 1)How do I hold everything in place while I torque this nut again? Probably a stupid question, but do I have to rent a torque wrench that goes to 140 foot pounds, and do they make such as thing? Any help would greatly be appreciated.
Kevin
 
I forget.
This rear end use select washer/shims for pinion preload or a crush sleeve?
If a sleeve, all stop.
Does your manual tell you to torque at 140 whilst checking for preload?
If not, and it's shims, see how much tension is required for 70 and double the grunt.
If it was me, I'd get some 242 Locktite (stronger than 222, but you will be able to get it apart), clean the threads with Brakleen, inside and out, and assemble with Locktite on the threads.
Just what I'd do if I had a shimmed diff and a torque wrench that was only usable for Briggs and Stratton engines (oh, did I say that?).
 
I am sorry, but I don't understand a lot of what you are asking me, TOC. There is a universal joint flange that fits onto the pinion, and then there is a large lock washer and nut. All it says in my manual is "Replace the driving flange and end cover, taking care not to damage the edge of the oil seal. Tighten the nut with a torque wrench to a reading of 140 foot pounds." It took so long to finish my car that I don't remember a lot of what I did the first time. How do you keep the wheels from turning while you tighten it? I can't keep the wheels in place even when I try to torque at only 75 foot pounds.Since I am under the car this makes me just a little bit nervous.
Kevin
 
There is a pre-load one places on pinion bearings when installing them.
One way is a sleeve that collapses between inner and outer pinion bearing, takes a LOT or torque to crush it, and it's permanent.
If you have that style (and I can't remember on a BE) you have to be careful not to put more crush into the sleeve.
Some are set up with selected shims, and if that's what yours has, no problem.
To torque, you can try all sorts of things. If the e-brake won't hold it, I have seen a BIG pipe wrench with a pipe on the handle, wedge against the garage floor, hold the companinon flange from moving, but that doesn't work well on a round flange.
The real way to do it is a long piece of 1/4" or 5/16" steel plate, cut to look like a thermometer, with a hole in the bulb end for the socket, and holes carefully drilled for the bolts that hold your driveline on spaced around that hole.
Bolt it on, wedge the end against the floor, and crank on the nut.
(I've got a manual somewhere, but it's 2200+, and the ground is white)
 
Thanks Trevor. The information about how to make a tool to hold the whole thing was very helpful. I still don't understand a number of things they are talking about such as the crush spacer. Where is the crush spacer located, and what does it look like?
Kevin
 
Kevin, (disclaimer here) I know squat about diffs. That being said, I had to replace my pinion seal, got it torqued up etc. etc. only to find that the listed torque setting (140lb) is too high if you are rebuilding. The pre-load is (I think) what holds the gears in place. If every piece is new, i.e. the crush sleeve (that which goes over the seal - I think) then you do the higher torque. Otherwise 75lbs is plenty.


I have to get mine sorted as there seems to be a small whine and I suspect it is related to over torquing. I have a Practical Classics article one this stuff (I still don't understand it) PM me your email if you care and I'll scan and send it to you.
 
I think I finally understand what the crush sleeve is everyone is talking about. Is this the same as the "collapsible spacer" that lies between the inner and outer pinion bearings? Moss lists this as part number 265-750. Does this work for all sprites? It has been so long since I worked on the rear end that I have forgotten what I did. I will go through my receipts to try and figure out what I did. I do remember replacing the seal.If I tighten the nut to 140 foot pounds, can I hurt anything? I am just worried it will work itself loose again, especially because my wife will be driving it most of the time.
Kevin
 
Yes, you can hurt something if it's a crush sleeve.
Like I said, I can't remember what yours has, just make sure before you make more work for yourself.

Chances are, you're going to need pinion bearings anyway.
Preload goes away and flange falls off, probably bounced the barings off the races enough to need replacing.
But, keep yer fingers crossed.
 
Perfect, TOC! I was just getting ready to PM you. Sorry I didn't understand what you were asking me last night. I had to do a little reading first. I went through my records and it looks like I replaced the axle bearings and seals, but only the seal for the pinion. If I torque the pinion nut to 140 is there any chance the rear end will be ok? How would I know? Would I be better off to bring the rear end to someone to have it professionally evaluated at this point? I am not thrilled at rebuilding the pumpkin mainly because I have no experience in judging whether parts are worn or not.
Kevin
 
Okay, where is your fill plug?
If there is one in the carrier (housing where the flange in question is), it uses a solid sleeve, N/A.
If the fill plug is ONLY in the banjo housing (where the axles go), it uses a collapsible sleeve.
That does not take into account the possibility of internal parts being swapped over the decades.

Here is what you do to tighten:

Make the torque bar for the flange.
See how it "feels", roationally, brakes fully off.
Start tightening. Every increment, re-check rotational drag.
When you feel a barely preceptible increase in drag, stop.

When the carrier is out of the vehicle, clamped in a vise, wth the ring gear removed, it's far easier to check, but you don't want to do that.
I am surprised, however, that the nut came off if you put 75 pounds of tork on it.
Really surprised.
 
There is a filler plug on the carrier housing but also on the back of the axle assembly. There is also a drain plug on the bottom of the axle assembly. If I understand you correctly, this is a solid sleeve type? Does that make it more likely to be OK by just tightening it? To be honest, I am not sure I did torque it to 75 pounds originally. There is normally a long period between working on parts. Normally I write notes to myself, but I must have forgotten this time. I also normally read before I do things, but I thought it would be a simple job to just replace the seal. I sure have messed things up. Since it is a solid sleeve type, couldn't I just torque it to 140 foot pounds?
Kevin
 
I ain't no ex-spurt on the variations of Sprites, but it appears you have a solid sleeve diff in a crush sleeve banjo (axle housing).
THEOretically, you're okay to tighten.
Like I said earlier, LockTite on clean threads (and, clean, get ready, unplug the phone, tell anyone in the house to not bother you until it's done) and cinch it down.

The reason I suspect you may have bearing issues coming up, I worked in a dealership....once.
Seems the modus-operandi of some employees when changing a pinion seal out was to just hammer the flange nut back with an impact gun, watching until the socket stopped moving.
Unfortunately, it damaged the pinion bearings (banging while loose), and they all had the be replaced.
 
I made a simple bar to hold the drive flange years ago. Works on MGB's and I'm sure other brit stuff as well. 1/2"x1 1/4" flat with 2 holes to match up to 2 holes on the flange [longest direction]. I then ground away a half moon to clear the socket for the flange nut. Check out a cheap torsion bar torque wrench at sears or whereever and use the loctite as well.

My.02, Kurt.
 
Yes I imagine a good sized pipe wrench would do the same thing simply but I hate pipe wrench jaw marks!!!!

Kurt.
 
I thought about the pipe wrench. I don't like marks either, but I had an idea. I was going to try putting two longer bolts through and seeing if I can grip that with the pipe wrench instead of the flange itself. If that doesn't work, I will try to make one of the devices mentioned with angle iron. I'll let you know how it goes.
Kevin
 
When I replaced my pinion seal and had to re-torque the nut, I used chain and a bolt..... I wrapped the chain around the axle and inserted a bolt through the chain, and one of the holes on the flange. This kept the flange from turning as I tightened the nut. Let me know if you need a better description.
 
Gliderman8 said:
When I replaced my pinion seal and had to re-torque the nut, I used chain and a bolt..... I wrapped the chain around the axle and inserted a bolt through the chain, and one of the holes on the flange. This kept the flange from turning as I tightened the nut. Let me know if you need a better description.
Click to expand...

I need a better description.
 
Hows this JP?
 
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