Petronix Flamethrower Dist.

[BJ7archaeologist]

Fellow Healeyoids, I recently installed a Pertronix Flamethrower distributor. My Healey has been converted to neg. ground, the dist. is a neg ground unit. New plug wires (non-solid core). I hooked up the two wires from the dist, red to pos, black to neg. A small plume of smoke arose when the ignition was turned on. No start. Pulled a plug, grounded it, no spark. The dist. unit is toast. Have others had a problem with Pertronix? I stuck my dist. back in with points and the engine fired right up. Oh, and I installed a new Pertronix coil to replace the old Pertronix coil too! No start, no spark with the Pertronix dist. I'm junking the Pertronix unit. This is the second one on a Healey that has failed to work. What other electronic ignitions are worth using?
Randy
63 BJ7
60-BT7

 

[Keoke]

What other electronic ignitions are worth using?

A standard Pertronix coversion Kit with a Lucas sport coil
0r your existing new coil. However, this failure sounds like the car is still Positive ground ?--Keoke

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Fellow Healeyoids, I recently installed a Pertronix Flamethrower distributor. My Healey has been converted to neg. ground, the dist. is a neg ground unit. New plug wires (non-solid core). I hooked up the two wires from the dist, red to pos, black to neg. A small plume of smoke arose when the ignition was turned on. No start. Pulled a plug, grounded it, no spark. The dist. unit is toast. Have others had a problem with Pertronix? I stuck my dist. back in with points and the engine fired right up. Oh, and I installed a new Pertronix coil to replace the old Pertronix coil too! No start, no spark with the Pertronix dist. I'm junking the Pertronix unit. This is the second one on a Healey that has failed to work. What other electronic ignitions are worth using?
Randy
63 BJ7
60-BT7

I would call Jeff with Advanced Distributor to discuss the Pertronix. He spent considerable time on the phone with me yesterday expaining what to use with Pertronix and not to use. I sent him two BJ8 Disributors to be rebuilt.

Roger, I'm getting them both polished! LOL

 

[Michael Oritt]

I agree with Keoke--make sure that the <span style="font-style: italic">coil</span> is wired correctly.

Though I run Mallory Unilites in both of my Healeys I use Pertronix in both of the Elva race cars and have not had any problems with either in several seasons of racing.

 

[BJ7archaeologist]

Thanks you guys. Indeed it is bizarre. I have an alternator conversion and my car is negative ground. I may send the unit to Advanced. That is where I bought my wires. I just want something reliable. My brother in law owns an automotive shop and he has replaced countless Pertronix units and claims he will never install another. They must be sensitive, I used two different Pertronix coils to no avail.
Randy
63 BJ7
60 BT7

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Thanks you guys. Indeed it is bizarre. I have an alternator conversion and my car is negative ground. I may send the unit to Advanced. That is where I bought my wires. I just want something reliable. My brother in law owns an automotive shop and he has replaced countless Pertronix units and claims he will never install another. They must be sensitive, I used two different Pertronix coils to no avail.
Randy
63 BJ7
60 BT7

Jeff at Advanced doesn't use Pertronix coils! Call him before you send your Distributor to him. He doesn't recommend the original side entry distributors, but instead recommends TR6 "top" entry distributor caps. He can explain "why".

 

[57_BN4]

Patrick- I'd be curious to know why if it isn't too much of a trade secret. The sedans used the top entry cap and I've never really understood the need to have two caps that achieve the same outcome.

Andy.

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Patrick- I'd be curious to know why if it isn't too much of a trade secret. The sedans used the top entry cap and I've never really understood the need to have two caps that achieve the same outcome.

Andy.

It's not a trade secret but the side entry caps can affect the Pertronix and the top entry caps take care of that problem. I'm not knowledgeable enough to explain it here in detail and theory and would hate to try and not get it right. With the stock ignition installed there's no issues with either Distributor caps.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Patrick- I'd be curious to know why if it isn't too much of a trade secret. The sedans used the top entry cap and I've never really understood the need to have two caps that achieve the same outcome.

Andy.

It's not a trade secret but the side entry caps can affect the Pertronix and the top entry caps take care of that problem. I'm not knowledgeable enough to explain it here in detail and theory and would hate to try and not get it right. With the stock ignition installed there's no issues with either Distributor caps.

Have heard of instances where the magnet carrier that fits under the rotor can cause the rotor to ride higher and possibly come into contact with the cap, causing problems. Possibly the top entry caps have more clearance.

I've had Pertronix electronic points with stock coil for at least 10years and 50K miles with absolutely no problems (did have a rotor fail once, but not due to the Pertronix).

 

[Keoke]

Re: Pertronix Flamethrower Dist.



I've had Pertronix electronic points with a Lucas coil for at least 10years and 30K miles with absolutely no problems rotors fail, but not due to the Pertronix

However,it may be possible if you have bad plug leads for them to cross fire,Similarly the aftermarket side entry caps are not as robust as the originals and may induce tracking.

considering the rotor height problem I always shorten the rotor height by the amount the magnet assembly tends to increase its height

Eliminating rotor failure requires that the rivet and little
internal spring be removed.

-----Keoke

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Re: Pertronix Flamethrower Dist.

However,it may be possible if you have bad plug leads for them to cross fire,Similarly the aftermarket side entry caps are not as robust as the originals and may induce tracking.

considering the rotor height problem I always shorten the rotor height by the amount the magnet assembly tends to increase its height

Eliminating rotor failure requires that the rivet and little
internal spring be removed.

-----Keoke

Yup. Had a random miss problem and did the 'dark test' (run the engine in a darkened but ventilated garage) and the Bosch dist. cap looked like a Tesla Coil. Got a genuine Lucas cap and Tesla Coil--and miss--were gone.

Bought some newer/better rotors and they didn't have rivets or metal spring.

 

[BJ7archaeologist]

Re: Pertronix Flamethrower Dist.

I have a top load dist. cap, like the TR6. Pertronix wants me to send the dist. back, but maybe I should just send it to Advanced????
Randy
60 BN7
63 BJ7

 

[drambuie]

Re: Pertronix Flamethrower Dist.

Hello Randy,

I know the flame thrower comes with the proper cap! However, I would send it back to where you bought it from! I would tend to agree with Keoke and Michael Oritt. Check that coil connection before you fry another electronic unit. Did you check and see if they sent you a positive ground unit by mistake? Michael IL.

 

[DRKizer]

Re: Pertronix Flamethrower Dist.

Thanks Michael, for seeing my similar post in the Racing Forum and telling me about this thread. Please excuse, I'm cross posting this to both forums.

The problem that I have may be unique to just the Pertronix "HP" distributor with the Igniter II module, not a Lucas conversion with regular Igniter module. Mine is one with mechanical advance only and a top entry dizzy cap.

I installed it on my Lotus Super Seven and acquired an engine miss that seemed to be associated with the rotor cap. I tried several "blue" rotors and one "black" one. If I seat the rotor all the way on the dizzy shaft, I have an intermittent miss, most noticeable in low to mid range rpm. It occurs whether I'm running the Flame-Thrower II (0.6 ohm, high turns ratio) coil or a Lucas Sport (3 ohm, lower turns ratio) coil.

I stumbled on the fact that if I raise the position of the rotor (blue or black) on the shaft as far as I can (just 10 or 15 thou shy of going solid with the underside of the dizzy cap), the miss goes away. I don't know if the rotors are arcing to the shaft or if the distance to the Ignitor II module (taller than the old regular Ignitor module) or something else is the issue, but I wasn't crazy about the idea of having to run the rotor just barely on the dizzy shaft.

As an update, let me first say that the Pertronix customer support is great. They are very refreshingly responsive by comparison to the norm these days. After trading a few emails with an engineer there, he asked me to send the dizzy to him so he could check it out. No hassle requiring a RMA and proof of purchase, etc... just send it and he'd look at it. As luck would have it though, he was unable to get the distributor to miss on the bench. He replaced the module and rotor anyway before he sent it back to me. I got it back last Friday and tested it in the car over the weekend, resigned that I must have a weak link somewhere.

I installed and ran the dizzy just as it came out of the box, with black rotor fully seated on the shaft. I also changed spark plugs and reduced gaps from .035" to .030" before a short test drive. The miss was still there, but seemingly not as bad. I opened the pug gaps to .040" and the miss was worse. I changed to a blue rotor, fully seated on the shaft. Same result. I raised the blue rotor on the shaft so there was a good 1/16" clearance between the underside of the rotor arm and the top of the Igniter II module, and... wait for it... the miss went away again, just like before.

I then tried a trick that was suggested by Keoke here in this forum. I removed the metal spring in one of my black rotors that keeps the rotor tight on the dizzy shaft. I fully seated the rotor on the shaft using a narrow bit of vinyl tape over the top of the shaft to cause the rotor to fit tight. Wow. No more miss. I repeated the test with another rotor, this time a blue one that had caused the miss before. Again, no miss while using the rotor fully seated with metal spring removed. Just a bit of vinyl tape on the shaft to make the rotor fit tight.

I can live with that.

Cheers,

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Re: Pertronix Flamethrower Dist.

Great info, thanks for sharing.

I'm beginning to wonder--based on this info and my previous experience with a Bosch dist. cap--if the plastic used on these aftermarket parts has insufficient dielectric strength; i.e. the plastic is conducive to high-voltage shorting to ground. This would explain the arcing on the dist. cap and the internal spring causing a short.

I bought some (allegedly) higher-quality rotors and they didn't have either a rivet or an external spring clip, maybe for a reason.

 

[Keoke]

Re: Pertronix Flamethrower Dist.

Hi Bob,- I think the dielectric strength of the rotor material may be questionable. However, I feel it is the presence of the metal bits [ rivet/spring ] which shorten the path length to ground allowing the high voltage break down to ground,

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Re: Pertronix Flamethrower Dist.

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Ed_K]

Re: Pertronix Flamethrower Dist.

I have used the petronix distributor for over two years now without the first bit of trouble, just as it came out of the box.
I am also using their 3 ohm coil which I have had longer than the distributor .
I also never had any trouble with the petronix ignitor either. I was using it in my stock distributor prior to installing their whole distributor...
But now that I think about it, I could never get my rotor to slide up off of the shaft. I tried to pull it off when I first got it but it resisted my attempts to pull it off with a lot of force. I was concerned that I would break it so I gave up on pulling it off. However mine was made, it was impossible to remove without fear of breaking the rotor arm off of the part that fits over the shaft. If yours was moving up easily before you tried the tape underneath then that loose fit was the whole problem....
It sounds like they now have a quality problem with either the rotor or the shaft diameter (undersized) ?
Maybe they glued mine down to the top of the shaft to keep it on ? It certainly seems like it but most likely it is just a very tight fit.

Ed

 

[Hoghead]

I am trying to decide whether to send my BJ8 distributor to Advance Distributors for rebuild or to simply take the cheaper route and replace it with a Petronix and keep the Lucas dizzy in the event that the next Owner wants it bone stock

I see that the advance curves are different for the BJ8 Vs other big Healeys, and this same Petronix model is offered as a replacement for all 25D Lucas distributors
How does Petronix and their competitors approach the problem of the different advance curves between all the cars that use this same distributor - or am I fretting over nothing

I little research tells me that I should have a Lucas 25D 40966. the correct vacuum unit is a 5/12/8

Published timing data is as follows:

Car	Static	Max	1100rpm	1500rpm	2000rpm	4400rpm
BN4/6	6	35	No data
BT7/BJ7	5	35	No data
BJ7/BJ8	10	34-38	2-8	10-16	15-19	28-32

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

I am trying to decide whether to send my BJ8 distributor to Advance Distributors for rebuild or to simply take the cheaper route and replace it with a Petronix and keep the Lucas dizzy in the event that the next Owner wants it bone stock

I see that the advance curves are different for the BJ8 Vs other big Healeys, and this same Petronix model is offered as a replacement for all 25D Lucas distributors
How does Petronix and their competitors approach the problem of the different advance curves between all the cars that use this same distributor - or am I fretting over nothing

I little research tells me that I should have a Lucas 25D 40966. the correct vacuum unit is a 5/12/8

Published timing data is as follows:

Car	Static	Max	1100rpm	1500rpm	2000rpm	4400rpm
BN4/6	6	35	No data
BT7/BJ7	5	35	No data
BJ7/BJ8	10	34-38	2-8	10-16	15-19	28-32

I had two stock distributors rebulit by Advance...one for my car and the other a spare. One has Pertronix and the other stock points. Jeff modified the advance to take care of "stock issue" from factory and make it perform a little better. I alos purchased his brand of rotors plus spares. I also purchased a top entry cap and Bosch wires and a Bosch coil.

I had no problems with the Pertronix before I took my car off the road back in 2007 for an engine rebuild and frame up restoration. I'm due to fire up the engine on our clubs Test Stand this Saturday with the Pertronix installed with top entry cap so I'm optomistic that all will go as planned.

Too many positive reports of Jeff's work at Advance to discount him. He will return your calls and explain answers to your questions in detail. The coils are all not the same...oil vs ceramic filling plus where they are manufactured.

I paid $109.00 for Distributor rebuild.
$20.00 to repair cracked housing(this is the area that most people overtighten when setting timing)
Rotors - $15.00
Cap - $20.00
Wires, Bosch - $20.00
plus shipping.

Fast turnaound service.