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TR4/4A Pertronic coil

Marla

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Did the Pertronic ign now the coil...is there a different version of the distributor cap available like the one in the photo that should work......having trouble with the spark plug wire to the coil...seems it is not making contact...put the white wire to positive along with the Pertronic wire...and only one to neg side...Marla
 

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Geo Hahn

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Is your car positive ground (as original) or negative ground?

Are your plug wires copper core or silicone core (black fibers)? Which connection does not seem to be making contact?

I know zip-all about Pertronix but I don't think you should have to use an MG distributor cap to get things to work.
 

dklawson

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I may have misunderstood your post. Excuse the following if it does not apply and rephrase your questions if necessary.

On the assumption we are talking about a non-ballasted, standard ignition on a negative ground car....
The car should have a white wire coming from the ignition switch going to coil (+).
With a Pertronix installed in the distributor, you should have a red wire from the distributor going to coil (+).
With a Pertronix installed in the distributor, you should have a black wire from the distributor going to coil (-).

If your car has a ballasted ignition and/or is positive ground please post back with that information.

As for the distributor cap, I don't know which distributor you have so I cannot offer suggestions.
 
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Marla

Marla

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Sorry for the delay in responding to you...a lot going on....anyway,got a Pertronix ign and coil and spark plugs went with a top load Lucas 25D4 distributor and here is where I am now...the only wire I saw was the white one so I put this on the positive side of the coil...the book says there is a white/black wire but I do not remember seeing that when I pulled off the old coil...I have a neg ground car...naturally it wont start now so more research on my end...sigh!!!...Marla
 

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Geo Hahn

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You're going to need someone familiar with Pertronix to get answers - all I know is how to spell it.

I will note that it appears in your photos that the high tension lead on the coil is not pushed all the way home. Perhaps you know that but it should be fully seated and the boot then slid down and over the neck of the coil.
 

dklawson

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Welcome back. Sorry it won't start.

From what I can see in the pictures the wiring is correct (Pertronix RED and car's WHITE wires on Coil (+) and the Pertronix BLACK wire on coil (-). The white/black wire that you cannot find is not used with Pertronix. Before you installed the Pertronix the white/black wire would have run from coil (-) to the points in the distributor.

Did you remove the distributor to fit the Pertronix? Did you set the static timing once the Pertronix was installed? If you have not checked or set the static timing, post back and we'll explain how to do it if necessary.

Did you check that your dizzy cap has the carbon brush in its center (they occasionally break and/or fall out). Are you using an old rotor or a new one?
 
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Marla

Marla

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Welcome back. Sorry it won't start.

From what I can see in the pictures the wiring is correct (Pertronix RED and car's WHITE wires on Coil (+) and the Pertronix BLACK wire on coil (-). The white/black wire that you cannot find is not used with Pertronix. Before you installed the Pertronix the white/black wire would have run from coil (-) to the points in the distributor.

Did you remove the distributor to fit the Pertronix? Did you set the static timing once the Pertronix was installed? If you have not checked or set the static timing, post back and we'll explain how to do it if necessary.

Did you check that your dizzy cap has the carbon brush in its center (they occasionally break and/or fall out). Are you using an old rotor or a new one?
...yes cap has the carbon brush and no I removed the points and condenser and put the electronic ign in I am thinking I might have gotten dialectic grease on a bit too much so will clean all ends of this grease...I do not know how to do static timing...the instructions on the new ign laid it out fairly simply how to put the ign in to replace the points etc...do I have to bump the starter to move the rotor so it is aligned with #1 spark plug?...yes I got a new Pertronix rotor too...Marla
 
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dklawson

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OK, we know the engine doesn't start now. Has it ever run for you? Why did you decide to change to Pertronix?

If you bought the "original" Pertronix, they can be static timed. Pertronix II and Pertronix III modules cannot. For guidance on static timing, see my online storage pages linked below. Near the bottom of the page you'll see a PDF about static timing.
https://sites.google.com/site/purlawson/home/files

If setting the static timing does not allow you to start the engine, post back and we can discuss general troubleshooting tests.
 

sp53

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Do not worry about static timing. The plugs are correct; You could still be 180 degrees out of time if you removed the distributor itself. And is so to fix that you have to find the timing marks……

The engine needs to be TCD that means number 1 piston at the top with the cam and crank in harmony with both number 1 vales closed at number 1 piston up stroke. The first mark to line up in on the crankshaft----- it just a little hole drilled in the pulley and the other mark is on the timing chain cover as pointer.
However, those marks line up twice that is why both vales at number 1 piston have to be closed to be timed despite were the plug wires are. You check usually with 2 people by either pulling out number 1 plug and feel the air come out against you thumb when the motor is spun by the other person. Then quickly stop spinning the motor and look for the timing marks. You would feel the air because both vales would be closed and the piston pushing up air on the compression stroke---- or pull the valve cover, check the valves to see were thing are, and if wrong----- then turn the motor one full turn and line up the vales so they are both closed with those marks on the crank pulley and valve cover in line and the distributor rotor pointing at number 1 in the cap, so that cam, crank ,and distributor are in harmony which is timed.

That is why it is a 4 cycle engine
 

bobhustead

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These cars came with simple point, condenser, coil systems that did not rely on inscrutable solid state quantum physics to understand. They worked well. Pertronix systems are a frequent subject of trouble discussed on this forum and I don't understand why people turn to them as an "improvement". Harrumph.
Bob
 

dklawson

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My main concern is when Pertronix ignitions are installed to fix a pre-existing problem. If you cannot make the engine run reasonably on points, the electronic ignition is just one more layer to troubleshoot. That's why in my last post I stepped back from troubleshooting the Pertronix to asking why it was installed and how the engine ran before.
 
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Marla

Marla

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I have used Pertronix modules and coils on the following cars I own...1966 Malibu...1965 Ford Galaxie 500...1973 Plymouth Roadrunner...1970 Chevrolet C10 and my 1975 Plymouth Scamp and never had a problem...so last night I did a bit of research and found out that a variety of modules made by Pertronix and sold by Moss where I bought mine have a corresponding distributor numbers and I looked for this number on my 1964 Tr4 and it looks like it is 407-95...and that is not the number on the module I bought...oh well...live and learn...went out this morning and replaced the original points set up...kept the new distributor cap...new spark plug wires and the new Flamethrower coil...car started right up and ran perfectly...thank you for letting me bend your ear and am grateful for all the advice you gave me...that is why I love this forum...even when you do dumb things there are people like you to lend a helping hand...Marla
 

dklawson

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I am glad you found the problem. I certainly would not have thought to ask if you had the correct kit for your car. Thanks for letting us know what you found!
 
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