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TR2/3/3A Paint code / formula coming to a head

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Got_All_4

Got_All_4

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Started a tread in May asking for paint codes for Sebring White for my 1960 TR3A. Got a lot of replies but all were dead ends. So today on my rounds I stopped at 2 auto paint suppliers PPG and Matrix. Gave them all the code numbers I got off the first tread and from TRF and none of them were even white. Green, yellow and blue.

So I'm hoping someone out there has recently painted their TR3 Sebring White and can get me the formula from them. preferably from one of he top paint companies but not being choosy now.
If I can get any formula I can have it mixed and spray it on a test panel to have PPG scan it and get a profit formula in their DBC line. The only hope so far was the Matrix guy said he has a color called Sebring white but the person on the phone said it might be a little bluer then original. It is in their single stage urethane line and the minimum is a quart to buy and it's $100. A lot for a test panel. Also I wouldn't know what Sebring white would look like if it bit me you know where.

My hope was to get it sprayed this weekend but even if I get the paint mixed in time the high temperature is only going to be 58 degrees and the type of furnace I have would not be good for paint fumes floating around the garage. I might make the national news!!!
 
Others have been down this same path (although not AFAIK for Sebring White). My opinion, you are overthinking it. No one knows exactly what it was, there is no Pantone reference, so whatever you wind up with will only be an approximation. It is also very possible that it is impossible to reproduce the exact original appearance using modern paint.

So, my solution would be to pick an off-white that is somewhat close to the preserved color chips, and let it go at that. (To my eye, it looks just a bit grayer than pure white, no tint.) You can even tell everyone it is "Sebring White". After all, since no one actually knows, they can't contradict you.

martin-senour-colors.jpg~original
 
Got_All_4 said:
...Also I wouldn't know what Sebring white would look like if it bit me you know where.
Click to expand...

Probably not much help but I did see a TR3A at a show on Sunday in Santa Fe that was billed as Sebring White:

SebringWhite_zpsdbbb6e31.jpg


Not original paint (and not a '59 for that matter) but it looked pretty much what I imagine Sebring White to be -- just a bit of grey and possibly a hint of ice blue. It is one of those colors that seem to vary quite a bit depending on what light you're viewing it in.

I could try to track down the owner but I doubt that would be helpful as I am pretty sure the car was already painted when he got it.
 
I've seen a lot of on line paint chips including the 2 above. One other that I did see must have been a later one because it had Leyland white under the Sebring white. They were very close. I originally painted my 3 in 1980 Leyland white because it was the closest I could find then. However this time my goal is to get it as close to the correct color as possible. I'd love to get my hands on one of the original paint chips. Could do a lot with it. Geo that's your call if you want to contact the owner. That would be great and you never know. What I did for my TR250 paint color was to take a copy of the PPG tinting formula and taped it inside the trunk so I would always have the correct formula handy.
 
Here is another page, if you really want it to look as original as possible I would paint it with an old fashioned lacquer or enamel, in my opinion that will make as much difference in making the car original as slight differences in tint. I don't recall if Triumphs of that era were painted in enamel or lacquer, but that is what you need, and it will look different than a single stage modern urethane enamel, and will look a lot different that a basecoat/clearcoat system.

I bought my paint from these guys and was pleased, they also offer enamel and lacquer or did last I checked: https://images.tcpglobal.com/chips/1964-Triumph-pg02.jpg Autocolor library TCP Global.
 
I painted mine with Primrose Yellow -base coat/clear and everyone seems to like the way it turned out. It matches one of the paint chips well. I too had trouble getting the correct ppg paint codes. One day I happened to be at the paint shop when the salesman was there. He called someone who had to look up the crossreference -on paper files and mixed it up for me. I probably had 5 outdated codes so he knew I serious. The codes are out there, someone knows how to crossreference it to todays paints.
 
Because I seem to have nothing but bad luck I've gotten pretty good at doing paint repairs. The best for that is base clear. I've talked to many many body shop painters for 6 months now trying to decide what I was going to do because I too was struggling with single stage or base clear dilemma. all I need is a formula for any paint and then easy to can come up with the base color I need. I was planning to stop at the Sherwin Williams store Friday so I printed the chip card. I also have a couple of paint stores that have been around here as long as I can remember. Hopefully they have kept their old chips.
 
I've used PPG in the past and the paint I bought from TCP smelled and was packaged very similarly. You might want to order a quart and try it. It comes pre-mixed and all you do is add the hardner. I sprayed a fender on my TR6 and color sanded and buffed it. Seems to be good paint. At least they can mix the color you want. My only complaint was that it was a little slower drying than I prefer. You can't choose the reducer temp that they pre-mix it with.
 
One of my other hobbies is building wood ship models. Ships live long lives and are updated almost every time they return to port. The USS Constitution has been in service over 200 years. So, before you start a ship project you pick a date and build the model to match what the ship looked like at that date.

What's this story got to do with antique car painting? A lot more than you would think.

The minute a TR drove off the assembly line the paint started to age. Whites turn yellow. Reds and blacks fade. The paint chips are more stable in a book...but after 50+ years even they change. The chips converted to jpg or pdf's above change based on the white balance on the camara or scanner, and also the monitor on which you are viewing them. Pigments from the day were lead based, whereas now they are titanium based. So, even with the exact color mix code, there will be a difference from then to now. There were even differences ibetween the batches of paints when these cars were brand new.

Your quest for the absolute perfect paint match is along the lines of searching for the holy grail.

I have a friend who took delivery of a 1976 vet, for the sole purpose of showing it. He parked it for 10 years and then started entering it in the survivor class, with only 7.5 actual miles. In more than one show the car was docked for having a poor "repainted" job! If you find your grail, chances are you will be the only one who recognizes that you found it.

Just me rambling...
 
I was talking to a local LBC restorer today about the fading paints. He told me that he has even had to rub and polish the chips in books to get their true colors to come out. I realize I'm not going to get that perfict match and just frustrated that I can't get any paint mixed. I've seen a lot of white TRs over the years and was not able to pinpoint in my mind what Sebring white was. So the pics and chips have been helpful. Just now need a starting point to select a chip from a paint chip book. I've got a pile of chip books to go through and get a starting point. Might be able to change the tinting to what pics I see and what I remember the color to be.
 
I had to cut some of this, but you can go to the site.

My Cart






[h=3]TRIUMPH 1964[/h]
[h=3]Select Paint Type[/h][h=3]Paint Information[/h]
Acrylic Enamel (Tech Sheet)
Acrylic Urethane (Tech Sheet)
Acrylic Lacquer (Tech Sheet)
Urethane Basecoat (Tech Sheet)
Low VOC UBLV Urethane Basecoat (Tech Sheet)

  • Exact Color Name: (Required)
    ie: Red Poly
  • Chip Formula Number:
    ie: 5407
  • Manufacturer Paint Code:
    ie: 391E/14
[h=3][/h]

[h=3]SELECTION SUMMARY[/h]
TRIUMPH - 1964Exact Color: sebring whiteChip Formula Number: 5961Manufacturer Paint Code: t20
Item NoDescription Your PriceQuantity
RSP AE-A-GLAE-ACRYLIC ENAMEL "A" COLORRESTORATION SHOP PAINT$89.95
RSP AE-A-QTAE-ACRYLIC ENAMEL "A" COLORRESTORATION SHOP PAINT$29.95
​
Suggested Hardeners
Item NumberDescription Your PriceQuantity
RSP AU4001-HPACRYLIC URETHANE HARDENERHALF PINT CAN$19.95
RSP AU4001-PTURETHANE HARDENER PINTURETHANE CATALYST - PINT CAN$27.95
Tech Sheets
Description
RSP AE Tech Sheet
Item NumberDescription Your PriceQuantity
PPG DAR-A-GLDELSTAR REG COLORACRYLIC ENAMEL$361.50
PPG DAR-A-QTDELSTAR REG COLORACRYLIC ENAMEL$102.65
PPG Suggested Thinners/Reducers
Item NumberDescription Your PriceQuantity
PPG DTR600-QTFAST ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER50 TO 75 DEG. TEMP RANGE$20.50
PPG DTR600-GLFAST ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER50 TO 75 DEG. TEMP RANGE$50.95
PPG DTR602-QTMEDIUM ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER70 TO 95 DEG. TEMP RANGE$20.50
PPG DTR602-GLMEDIUM ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER70 TO 95 DEG. TEMP RANGE$50.95
PPG DTR604-GLSLOW ACRYLIC ENAMEL REDUCER85 TO 100 DEG. TEMP RANGE$60.00
PPG Suggested Hardeners
Item NumberDescription Your PriceQuantity
PPG DXR80-PTDELTHANE ULTRA HARDNR $102.00
PPG Tech Sheets
PPG DAR Tech Sheet




 
IMG_1280.jpgIMG_1269.jpg
Marv
I hope this works for you on the code. The other 250 in the photo is the owner that we bought our 250 from. (who need's two Triumph's)
 
Is that the formula for the Sebring white 3 in the pic on the first page? My wife Keeps asking me how many Triumphs do you want? My reply is always, just one more! I'm at 4.
 
Sqbsprite

What are all those item numbers? Are they the correct color or how do I get the Sebring white formula to order?
 
Go here: https://www.autocolorlibrary.com/ find the paint chip sheet for your color, enter the name and code for the color and it will give you pricing, many times you will have to look at a different year (usually later) to find the right paint chip, in this case I think you need to got to 63 or 64 Triumph chips.

Once there you will see the pricing for the various paint options, I was happy with my Triumph Signal Red, and I saved a lot of money.
 
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