TR2/3/3A Original Radios in the TR3/3A/3B

[Tropical TR]

Hello All,
When I bought my '59 TR3A in the early 90's it had (and still has) an old style telescopic antenna which could be period correct. It had been hooked up to a more modern Radio Shack type radio which the previous owner had bolted underneath the dash. Now that I am restoring the car, it is time to decide whether or not to patch up the antenna hole while the other body work is going on. OR, to keep the antenna for a possible original radio installation. Would probably only do that if I find sheet metal screw holes in the transmission tunnel where the original radio brackets would have been mounted. If there is no such evidence and the antenna is clearly an add-on, I may not pursue it. But the antenna is mounted just about dead-on in the fender location that is specified in Smith's installation instructions on sites like Terry Ann Wakeman's:

https://www.tr3a.info/radiomobile.htm

Would like to ask a few questions of those who have or had TR2/3/3A/3B's with original factory or dealer installed radios; also those who simply have good information in this regard (don't know if any TR2's had radios except those which were mounted in the glove box area):

- The standard factory radios were apparently Smith's Radiomobile in a number of models and configurations. Is that correct? Did those radios get installed in any cars bound for the North American market, or by US or Canadian dealers?

- Are there any UK, European or worldwide owners that have what they know or believe to be original factory or dealer radio installations? If so, can you provide information and photos of your radio setups? It would be interesting to know, for instance, what the UK home market installations were vs. Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, and all of those other great and exotic places to which TRs were exported.

- Motorola radios, to my knowledge, were also installed in the US cars. Did they use the same installation kit as the Smith's radios? There is also the British PYE radio mentioned on the Terry Ann site, which apparently used a slightly different mounting kit. Were there other radios routinely installed by dealers?

- Would value any information out there, certainly from those with originally installed radios. Make, model number, push button or not, transistor or valve (tube)....any of this is good info. Most were probably AM (MW) band only, but I think some also had long wave capability. Although there were some transistor radios around for cars in the late 1950's, I believe all or most of the TR2-3A, if not also 3B, were still equipped with tube radios; but would be interested if you have other information.

- Speakers: I believe the standard configuration was one speaker mounted behind a chrome grill above the radio on the tunnel. However, have read that some cars have speaker holes in the foot well sides. If so, were these owner mods only?

There is at least one vendor out there selling a reproduction installation kit:

https://www.britishwi....et-p/tr3rb.htm Do you know of others?

Any photos of your radio installation would also be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Walter

 

[trglory]

When I got my '58 TR3a in 1973 it had an antenna hole about 8 inches forward of the door on the passenger side. It also had a very large hole in the passenger side footwell with 3 equally spaced ears notched out for mounting screws; looks like it took about an 8-10 inch speaker. When I was doing the body work, I patched the antenna hole but left locator marks on the inside of the fender in case I ever wanted to mount an antenna in the future. But after 40 years of driving the car, I can't imaging ever wanting to install a radio. With engine noise, exhaust noise, wind buffeting etc., I don't think I would hear very much enjoyable music. Besides, the sounds that the car makes are so sweet that anything else would be a distraction.

Joe

 

[Tropical TR]

Joe,

Thanks for that information and good idea about marking the antenna location. I agree with you on the sound and the radio being overwhelmed, and found the same even with my TR6 and that factory installed radio years ago. If I added a radio, it would mostly be for accessory display, or when parked. No rolling up windows and turning the AC on to listen to tunes in this case! Part of me also just wants to get more documentation on this subject as the radio and other accessories have not been addressed in enough detail (in my opinion) in the TR publications.

Regards,

Walter

 

[trglory]

Walter;

I should also mention that the "center console" radio mount sold by British Wiring is the same style as I remember seeing on the cars that did have the radio installed in the '50s. Doh!!!! Now I'm showing my age. :frown-new:





Joe

 

[Jesus]

Walter,

I can send to you a pdf document entitled “SMITHS Radiomobile – Owners Manual”, with detailed instructions on where to drill the aerial hole and with installation details of the radio in the TR3.

Jesus

(Message edited)

OOPS, this document is the same available for download in TeriAnn’s web page.

 

[Tropical TR]

Joe,

You could have been 5 years old and in someone's lap when you saw the radio.....

Jesus,

Thanks all the same!

Regards,

Walter

 

[trglory]

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt ...... a smart man would just stop talking now, a dope would admit that he wasn't.

Joe

 

[Crankshaft]

In 1962 I bought a radio from the dealer who sold me the car. Included in the box with the radio was an additional glass for the radio dial that was printed backwards so the radio could be mounted upside-down on top of the transmission hump since the built in speaker would be on top. I put the antenna in the passenger side fender. I saw a lot of little British cars on the street in those days, and don't remember any with "factory" radios.

 

[Tropical TR]

Phil,

Thank you very much for relating that personal experience. I am thinking that most if not all of the cars came over here without, and then got the radio kits installed at the dealers. I do appreciate it. Do you recall if it was a Motorola or other brand? Is it still the same car you have and is the radio still there?

Regards,

Walter

 

[Crankshaft]

Walter, I only wish I still had that one. It was in fact a Motorola.

 

[TR3driver]

FWIW, it is my belief that all TR3 and earlier TR3A had the speaker hole in the kick panel, even if they were never fitted with a radio. TS39781LO had no indication of ever having a factory radio (even though one was added later), and there was apparently original body paint on the edges of the speaker hole (as well as no scars around it from mounting a speaker). Same story with TS13571L. The hole is huge by modern standards, I was unable to find a full-range speaker to fit it (as opposed to a woofer). The hole appears to have always been on the RHS, even for RHD cars. The factory speaker was installed with a deflector for any rain water that made it through the unsealed seam above that cavity. I believe the kick panel hole was used only with the earlier tube radios (the ones with the control head mounted through the glovebox door), not with the later solid state radios. There is a radio installation note that indicates the big hole was deleted on cars produced from 6/4/59 onwards, which would be more-or-less consistent with the introduction of solid state radios in late 58 or early 59. I believe the solid state versions normally had the speaker in the hump mount.

Apparently, the vast majority of cars shipped to the US were not fitted with factory radios, it was usually a dealer option. Supposedly the reason was that the radios tended to disappear during shipping. One notable exception would be "personal export" cars. The US dealers normally fitted the recommended Motorola radios, but no doubt there were exceptions. The earliest record I have of "Triumph" branded radios is 1963, which of course is after TR3 production ended.

Again FWIW, the stereo setup I had on TS39781LO was loud enough to be heard even at freeway speeds with the top down. But there isn't a lot of dynamic range available between the wind noise and the threshold of pain, I wouldn't want to try to listen to classical music. Fortunately, I like "classic" rock and roll better, and much of it has no dynamic range to speak of What I actually preferred (and still do) is to listen to audio books. They make both long trips and the daily commute much more enjoyable. I plan to eventually duplicate that setup on my current TR3, for the same reason. Besides, one of my "bucket list" projects is to drive the old Route 66 (as much as possible) from end to end, and playing the song frequently will be a requirement for the trip!

 

[TomMull]

I hope that is near the top of your bucket list, it sounds like a good one. I might like to try it in an old Vette (which I don't have). I don't suppose I should say that on this forum.
It appears to me that the Triumph "brand" radio was a Motorola with the Triumph logo stamped on the dial. Also thought they came on some later TR3As but probably added on some time after '63.
Tom

 

[Marvin Gruber]

Walter
I just bought a working STANDARD/TRIUMPH badged positive grd radio home today that I planned to list on ebay. PM me if you are interested

Marv

 

[TR3driver]

Marv, if you don't mind, what is the model number of the radio you have?

 

[Marvin Gruber]

Randall,
Here's a picture of it, I thought it said Standard Triumph but its just Triumph. Only number I can find on it is 103029, there are letters in front of the number but I can only make out IRTER.

Marv

 

[TR3driver]

Thanks, Marv. Do the holes on top of the case form a rectangular pattern, like this?

(Photo of 4TBTR from SAMS AR-26)

 

[TomMull]

My assumption that the Triumph radios were made by Motorola seems to be incorrect as Randall's picture appears to show a Bendix product (and number). Tom

 

[Marvin Gruber]

Randall
Mine has the same hole pattern in the top. Just enlarged your picture. This is the same radio. Has the little slides on the end and paper flap on left side above knob.

Marv

 

[Tropical TR]

Tom, Randall and Marv,

Thanks for further insights into the less than "Standard" practices of radio installation with TRs in the early years. It is a shame that more literature showing the radio options from those years has not survived. From what I have read in different places including EBay ads, is it plausible that perhaps (in addition to the Radiomobile radios which were perhaps more UK/Commonwealth based) that tube Motorolas carried the weight in the US (if not also Canada) during the TR3/3A period? And possibly as early as TR3B but certainly from TR4 onwards, solid state radios which actually had the word "Triumph" on them were introduced? Not at all sure about the point in time when solid state radios were introduced with the TRs. Also, maybe the later radios with the TR logo would have been Bendix but I'm not sure at which point Bendix started either. Maybe not until TR250? Another question would be whether the Motorolas were produced in their UK or US works. The Aussies apparently also experienced the use of HMV radios. From the brief checking I have done, apparently Radiomobile radios were sometimes marketed as "Smith's Radiomobile" or "HMV Radiomobile" throughout the world, or at least in the Commonweath countries.

Marv and Randall, would Marv's radio have been produced after 1960; perhaps around 1964? Do you have anything that would indicate which specific radio models were available in specific years; in my case 1959 or 1960?

Concerning speakers, as Joe pointed out earlier there was a speaker hole in the passenger foot well which would have taken a large round speaker. I have also been in contact with some Aussies and Brits who suggest or firmly believe that those speaker holes were a carry over from the TR2/early TR3 days when the bulky separate valve units were mounted somewhere under the dash/on the tunnel or behind the seats while the control unit was located cut into the face of the glove box location. The speaker, if mounted in that fender well location might have had a deflector mounted behind it to keep stray fender well moisture/crud off of it. Those holes were apparently eliminated sometime during TR3A production. Since my TS52910L (built 25 May 59) is currently in another state, I cannot confirm whether or not it has the hole, although I suspect not.

Thanks, Walter

 

[TR3driver]

Marv's radio appears to be a model 4TBTR, which appears in the Sept 64 issue of SAMS Photofact Auto Radio series. That doesn't prove when the radio started being installed in cars, but usually (back then) the AR article was no more than a year after the radio first appeared in cars. (Meaning I think that model probably appeared in late 1963 or early 1964) As noted, it appears to be made by Bendix, but the only indication in the article is that many components have Bendix part numbers. No indication as to country of origin. Somewhere around here I've got a slightly later "Triumph" radio though (5BTRP with the polarity plug), which I believe does carry a "Made in USA" marking somewhere. There is an earlier Triumph branded radio in the June 1963 SAMS issue (AR-19) which lists Bendix Radio Div in Baltimore as the supplier. Both of these radios are positive-ground only, so they clearly would not have been supplied after 1964, as the TR4A went to negative ground in 1965. But, I do not believe they would have been available as early as 1960.

In 1959-1960, I think the only radio available from Standard-Triumph would have been the Smiths Radiomobile. Although Radiomobile was organized as a separate company, it was partially owned by Smiths and the documentation I have all shows the "Smiths Radiomobile" logo even though the radio faceplate only says "Radiomobile".


However, as I said before, radios in the US were (mostly) installed by dealers, who could either source the entire Radiomobile kit from S-T or install their preference of radio. Here's a shot of a Motorola radio (with no Triumph logo) installed in the hump mount plate. (Unfortunately I neglected to record the source, so if anyone recognizes this as their photo, please let me know.)


PS, I agree entirely with what you've said about the earlier radios, except the "bulky valve unit" was mounted under the dash behind where the glovebox would have been. There were two special braces installed between the lip of the dash and the firewall, that carried both the control unit and the valve unit. TS13571L has the square holes in the firewall where those braces would have attached (with captive nuts inserted through the square holes), but they are filled with rubber plugs (apparently by the factory).

PPS, the R2BT4 radio listed in June 1963 AR-19 was a hybrid, it contained both tubes and transistors. The tubes were a special design that allowed operation directly from 12V DC, instead of requiring 100+ volts for the plate. My 1962 Chevy had a similar radio, and I always thought it was odd having to wait for a "Solid State" (as the faceplate proclaimed) radio to warm up