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no oil pressure

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airlifter

Jedi Hopeful
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I have been posting using the display name of 69tr but I am having trouble with my password. Now to my problem.

I just finished rebuilding the engine on the '69. I set the engine in the car yesterday and bolted it down. When I turned the engine with the starter I could not get any oil pressure. I removed the oil pressure tube at the block and got no oil out of the port.

I replaced rings, bearings, cam, rockershaft, valves, seals etc. The one thing that I did not replace was the oil pump. The oil pressure was good before so I guess I tried to scrimp.

Another problem is an oil leak at the oil pan almost directly below the oil filter. I did replace all gaskets and thought I kept everything clean.

I guess I will pull the oil pan and replace the pump.

Any other ideas??

Pete
 
I always use a drill to prime the oil pump before cranking the engine after a rebuild, otherwise you run the risk of burning the bearings while cranking. Did you use a sealer on the oil pan gasket? Since your going to pull the oil pan, check to make sure the lip of the pan is nice and straight and flat.
 
TR3TR6 said:
I always use a drill to prime the oil pump before cranking the engine after a rebuild, otherwise you run the risk of burning the bearings while cranking. Did you use a sealer on the oil pan gasket? Since your going to pull the oil pan, check to make sure the lip of the pan is nice and straight and flat.
Click to expand...

With assembly lube and no spark plugs the starter will get the oil flowing without creating enough friction to hurt anything.
But if you do spin the pump with a drill do it with the drill in reverse.
A word of caution though. The distributor/oil pump drive gear won't be installed, so special care needs to be taken installing it.
The gear has to engage the oil pump's driven dog. The gear will rotate as it simultaneously engages the cam and the oil pump. That's a little hard to co-ordinate and failure to line up the gear with the oil pump and then installing and seating the distributor into the drive gear will force the oil pump drive shaft down into the pump, never to engage the oil pump drive.
Never, until you drop the sump and replace or repair the oil pump and install it again from below.
Just be careful if you go that route.
Or maybe the whole thing has already happened as "hondo" suggested.
 
I pulled the oil pan today. I am going to remove the pump and pack it with vaseline as suggested. I then plan to use some type of container to submurge the pump in oil while it is mounted on the car and use a drill to turn the pump. I hope this will get some oil flowing.

When I do this should I get some oil out of the oil pressure fitting?

Thanks for all of the help so far.

Pete
 
Well that's a unique approach. If your "container" is big enough to hold the volumne of oil that is necessary to fill all the galleys, fill the crank, rocker arm etc, etc, you should have enough oil pressure to make it to the pressure gauge fitting, but then again if you don't have enough oil, you'll just displace your assembly lube and not have enough oil to replace it. Not good..
There must be a reason people don't do that and I suspect it's what I just described. Frankly, I'd prefer a full sump for the "container".
If your oil pump is primed and engaged with the drive gear and your sump is full, there's no reason that the starter would not get the oil circulating, especially as fast as the engine will turn without spark plugs
 
poolboy said:
If your "container" is big enough to hold the volumne of oil that is necessary to fill all the galleys, fill the crank, rocker arm etc, etc,
Click to expand...
But don't forget where all that oil is going to wind up : on the floor.
 
the pump also has to fill the oil filter completely and that could take some time, before you see oil pressure if it were me, I would either take the plugs out run the starter till the pressure came up, or use a drill in reverse to prime the system,

if you have one of the new spin on filter kits, you can fill the oil filter up before you install it, and dont forget the oil cooler if you have one of those too.

hondo
 
If you try the reverse drilling on the oil pump shaft dog, I've heard you want to monitor the drill speed. Too fast with a working pump and you get a gusher out the top off the distributor mounting hole.
 
simpson said:
If you try the reverse drilling on the oil pump shaft dog, I've heard you want to monitor the drill speed. Too fast with a working pump and you get a gusher out the top off the distributor mounting hole.
Click to expand...

No, you will just get a small flow. What does happen is that when the oil lines fill up, you suddenly get a tremendous amount of torque needed to spin the pump and if you aren't careful the drill will jump out of you hand and whack you.
 
Thanks for the information. I guess I will replace the sump, fill it with oil and check the pump with the drill. I just didn't want to do all of that just to find out that I would need to drain and remove the sump again. I guess I am just lazy.

I am also going to remove the oil filter and repace the "O" ring on the filter mounting housing. I think the leak that I thought was coming from the oil pan might have been coming from the oil filter housing.

I do have the spin on oil filter. I did not fill the filter before I turned the engine over and the he oil filter is full of oil now.

Again, thanks for the help. Any other help or advice is greatly appreciated.

Pete
 
70herald said:
No, you will just get a small flow. What does happen is that when the oil lines fill up, you suddenly get a tremendous amount of torque needed to spin the pump and if you aren't careful the drill will jump out of you hand and whack you.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what almost painfully surprised me when I primed my TR3A engine. Big difference in torque.
 
I thought this was worth repeating so forgive me if you got it the first time. :crazyeyes:
"But if you do spin the pump with a drill do it with the drill in reverse.
A word of caution though. The distributor/oil pump drive gear won't be installed, so special care needs to be taken installing it.
The gear has to engage the oil pump's driven dog. The gear will rotate as it simultaneously engages the cam and the oil pump. That's a little hard to co-ordinate and failure to line up the gear with the oil pump and then installing and seating the distributor into the drive gear will force the oil pump drive shaft down into the pump, never to engage the oil pump drive"
:frown: Besides all that, spinning the pump with a drill will NOT pump oil to the rocker shaft and valve stems
 
If I use a drill to turn the pump should I get oil out of the oil pressure gauge port?

As I mentioned earlier, the pump did fill the fliter with oil. Does this mean that the pump is working and just not getting to the port?

Sorry for all of the basic questions and thanks for the help.
 
With a drill the oil will go everywhere it would go if the engine were running or spinning with the starter EXCEPT into the head and valve train.
Hopefully using a drill you'll still have some assembly lube left for when the crank actually rotates for the first time.
 
poolboy said:
With a drill the oil will go everywhere it would go if the engine were running or spinning with the starter EXCEPT into the head and valve train.
Hopefully using a drill you'll still have some assembly lube left for when the crank actually rotates for the first time.
Click to expand...

Is that right? Is rotation of the cam necessary to get oil up into the head / valve train? I'd think the pump could still get it up there, just maybe not as efficiently?
 
"Oil is fed to the valve gear via the hollow rockershaft at a reduced pressure by means of a scroll and two flats on the camshafts rear journal."
Whether any oil could possibly go any higher would depend on the position of the flats , I suppose.

As long as he intends to use a drill though, no harm should come to the valve train, becaise it won't be turning.
Lining the drive gear back up to the oil pump shaft and the possibility of washing off the assembly lube from the bearings are going to be the only draw backs to using the drill, but Pete must see some advantage that I don't.
 
Let me start over. I probably not clear about what I have done so far.

I did not pack the oil pump before I turned the engine over. I do have a spin on oil filter. I did not fill the oil filter before installing.

The plugss are not installed.

I used the starter to rotate the engine to get the oil pressure up. The oil pressure never came up. I took the oil pressure line loose at the block and no oil came out. The oil filter filled up with oil. When I put oil in the engine I had the valve cover off and doused the valve train with oil. Ithought that had turned the engine over long enough for the oil pressure to build up.

I am pretty sure that I had the distributor meshed with the oil pump. If it is not meshed then the distributor will ot set all of the way down.

I have the oil pan off now and plan to pack the oil pump with vasoline before I go any further.I will then replace the sump and refill with oil and start over.

Should I then use a drill to prime the pump? How will I know when to stop turning with the drill?

Again, I apologize for all of the stupid questions and thanks again, Pete
 
No stupid questions here, Pete. These are the sorts of threads that are helpful to everyone, so hang in there, and the group will help you get this sorted.

:cheers:
Mickey
 
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