New project NO

[Bob Claffie]

I haven't had a LBC for a couple years since I sent the RB MGB down the road. Have some time on my hands and started looking for a new project Ran across a derelict Bugeye and said "Why not ?" Price is right and it is mostly rust free which is good as I am a better mechanic than I am a welder. Needs a complete mechanical restoration, maybe a two year project , you know the kind, takes twice as long and three times the $$$ that you originally figured ?

Anyway, I had a couple year old Moss catalogue here so I started looking up things I knew were needed. Yikes how can you guys who have or are restoring one of these things justify the expense Even if I got the car for free I would be upside down before being half done even doing the majority of the work myself. I don't look to make a profit on my cars but breaking even is the goal, I admit I work for 10 cents an hour (figuratively) so the labor is basically free.

Once you look at $400 radiators and $300 gas tanks and then there are so many parts no longer available what do you do ? I could probably restore a Vette for the cost of a BE and have a $50000 car when done

I admirer all you who are into BE's but I don't think I will be joining you. I have no desire to have $22000 into a $13000 car. Press on blindly and keep the stories and pictures coming I will be with you in spiriit if no other way. Bob

 

[Rut]

Bob,
Restoration is a money loser for sure and that’s why I have as many as I do...it’s an adventure for me. The best way has always been to buy someone else’s restoration, at least you’re not under water from the start. The good news is that well kept and well restored Bugeyes bring pretty good money, I’ve seen several sell in the $20k plus range and they were less than perfect.
Rut

 

[twas_brillig]

IF you have the storage space, consider picking it up and putting it aside until you can find a rusted out later Spridget that is mechanically complete. The zillion dollar new bits are shiny, but it's sure a lot better if you don't have to buy ALL of them. Doug

 

[nomad]

I agree with the above....lots of ways to cheapen up the project and most involve parts car's. Most good used parts are as good or better than lots of the new and many later Spridget parts swap right in to a BE.
Besides that the restoration can be looked on as recreation! I've always enjoyed getting greasy!
This site is also a great source of knowledge as to other ways to do and improve. Frank Clarici's swap of a Geo radiator is one idea that comes to mind. A better radiator than stock for penny's.

Kurt.

 

[65_BRG_Sprite]

The much better half and I have a 65 Sprite Mk 3 that we've spent some money and lots of time on. No, it's not worth much and never will be but we love it. That's the only thing that counts to us.

 

[hcallaway]

I think your dollar proposition on a build is not accurate. This is for a 1960 AH Bugeye.
[h=2]Current & Historical Values[/h] View current vehicle values and see how they’ve changed over time in 3-year, 5-year and to-date intervals. Compare these values to other vehicles and benchmark financial indices.
[h=3]Current Values[/h]

• #1 Concours$33,000
  Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best vehicle, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the vehicle has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 vehicles is "concours."
  
• #2 Excellent$21,500
  #2 vehicles could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 vehicles that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and finishes will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine. The vehicle will drive as a new vehicle of its era would. The one word description for #2 vehicles is "excellent."
  
• #3 Good$14,200
  #3 vehicles could possess some, but not all of the issues of a #4 vehicle, but they will be balanced by other factors such as a fresh paint job or a new, correct interior where applicable. #3 vehicles drive and run well, but might have some incorrect parts. These vehicles are not used for daily transportation but are ready for a long tour without excuses, and the casual passerby will not find any visual flaws. "Good" is the one word description of a #3 vehicle.
  
• #4 Fair$7,500
  #4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 vehicle.
  

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[hcallaway]

I have a fairly extensive build that I am doing. I should be under 20K. It will not be a #1 but it will be a very solid car that will be for the most part a new car.
There are many variables. Paint can range from $500 to $10K depending on what is included. I think most people can have reasonable expectations and stay in budget.
I would always recommend buying vs building. I cannot afford $20K at one shot. I can do a $1K here and $300 there so I have to do what I do.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Spridget Porn again.
Bugsy IV will be in low '20s after paint. But I did start with a higher priced zero rust CA One-Owner Car to begin with. And I added extra goodies like Disk Brakes, 5-Speed, rebuilt 1,326, 8 Spoke Wheels, Those Items alone added ~ $7k to build cost. I didn't start with the idea of making money. Bugsy is registered as part of the Click and Clack, Capital Depreciation Fund.

 

[nomad]

Also like to add that for some reason with these cars people figure they have to get there money out but no one looks at the daily driver that way. You just expect it to depreciate like crazy. Never could quite figure that one out! If you drive it in most cases its going to cost!!

Kurt.

 

[Rut]

Cost per smile...
Rut

 

[hcallaway]

One of the nicest original cars to start with that I have ever seen for the age. It will be a stunner!

Spridget Porn again.
Bugsy IV will be in low '20s after paint. But I did start with a higher priced zero rust CA One-Owner Car to begin with. And I added extra goodies like Disk Brakes, 5-Speed, rebuilt 1,326, 8 Spoke Wheels, Those Items alone added ~ $7k to build cost. I didn't start with the idea of making money. Bugsy is registered as part of the Click andClack, Capital Depreciation Fund.

 

[JPSmit]

Cost per smile...
Rut

Indeed. I have not yet totalled my bills for Ms. Triss. No plans to ever - and should I die a friend will remove the evidence. I could have easily bought but for me half (or more) of the joy was the wrenching and knowing I was building "my" car. Without that I could have just bought a Miata.

 

[Bob Claffie]

Perhaps some of you readers/respondents misunderstand my position I am interested in a "project" for the pleasure of building an interesting car, the same way I enjoyed building my Cobra replica (which when sold was a break even deal).

i am in a position where i can buy pretty much whatever I want but being a parsimonious person I do not like to waste money where it is not justified. I have an interesting fleet as it is: #1 is my garage queen '62 Corvette, #2 is my run around I don't care if it gets a parking lot ding '04 Corvette, #3 is my all purpose economy car a '92 Miata, #4 is the '16 Golf GTI econobox who thinks it's a sports car, #5 is a '08 Honda Civic grocery getter, take trash to the dump car.

As you may surmise, I do not NEED a Bugeye Sprite but I would LIKE to have one but only if it was a $5000 to $8000 DRIVER, not Excellent, not Very Good, not even Nice, barely good enough would suit me to a tee. I'm not panning anyone who aspires to a great Bugeye but we all have different priorities and one of mine is not a $25000 Sprite.

 

[Boink]

As you may surmise, I do not NEED a Bugeye Sprite but I would LIKE to have one but only if it was a $5000 to $8000 DRIVER, not Excellent, not Very Good, not even Nice, barely good enough would suit me to a tee.

You may have missed that market by a mere 5 years. layful:

 

[twas_brillig]

We purchased a disassembled AH 3000 BJ7 from a friend in the early 80s; we drove it a bit in the late 80s( it still wasn't really complete), but time/money/energy left it always as a project. In the late 90s, we had a shop go through it and finish off installing the interior and other things, and drove it semi-reliably for a couple of summers. The early 80s paint job went all bubbly in this millenium and the o/d was failing etc. etc.
I've retired, I think, 3 times - went back to work the last time (I've got a couple of engineering degrees and the price of oil was way up there at the time, and I was valuable for a major pipeline job, at that time).
We took the BJ7 into a shop for a hoped for 15-20k Cdn paint job, but project creep took over as (for example) the shop found a lot of body filler that none of us suspected, we decided to do a bunch of upgrades, etc. etc. Bottom line, the Healey was in the shop for dang near two years and I could have bought a very expensive Mercedes plus afforded the insurance for the rest of my life for what the Healey cost.
When I look at the dollars I spent, I shake my head. But the other angle is: I could've spent nearly a year sitting in the garage, looking at it, and slowly trying to learn how to acquire all the metal working and other impossible skills, and accomplished effectively nothing, or gone back to work and spent that same time earning the funds to hire the necessary skills. One way (the pure dollars) makes me cringe; the other way was an effective use of my time - and I enjoyed being back in the work force. My energy level has really dropped over the last few years and I'm pretty much content to comfort myself that I used to do and be able to do a lot of stuff that I'm just not real interested in doing (or, really, capable anymore). So, in retrospect I had two options (1) spend lots of hours (which I had, being retired) and lots of energy (which I didn't have)) and do a DIY completion/restoration or (2) spend fewer hours in the work force to earn the money to have the car done properly. Today, option 2 would not be available due to the collapse of oil prices and the resulting impact on the local economy, and I'd probably have a running car with a bubbled paint job and without the various upgrades. As is, I'm going to have a pretty happy and appreciative grandson down the road when I'm too old to drive it. Doug

 

[hcallaway]

Love the selections!!

1959 pristine 948 cc Bug-Eye; DCOE, 5 speed; bought 1971
1960 BE bought 1971 & stored since; body tub restored and reassembling (1275; etc.)
1962 AH 3000 BJ7; 3rd owner (1982?); in shop Oct. 2015 for paint job - home soon!
1962 VW Meyers Manx clone dune buggy; stripped last winter and being reassembled
1969 Kawasaki 500 H1 Triple, orig. owner; stored since 1973, but runs again! 1999 Buell S3

 

[smaceng]

I thought I would chime about my experience with 60Frog, which I have passed on to Bill Mayor in San Diego. I was lucky enough to find a very good body which had been stripped and painted. When I started my build, I came to realize that most of the remaining stuff was not worth using, including the engine, transmission, electrical, etc. Based on that, I decided if I was going to replace all those parts, I might as well make it a show car. In saying that, I do not mean that the car was original as built, but as nice as I could make it, and upgrade it to make it more reliable, safe, and fun to drive. I added fuses and relays, electronic control box, 5-speed, steering wheel, and nice set of wheels and tires. I never did this restoration to make money, as said above, but for the fun and satisfaction. I did add up all my costs, and it was a couple of thousand over what I sold it for, which was in the low 20s. Bill as taken the car to the next level with better paint, and other mods. He has also collected dozens of awards for the car. I am very pleased that I was able to build a car that is being enjoyed daily, and also has been appreciated by many who have seen it.
Cheers,
Scott in CA

 

[Jim_Gruber]

And the miles per smile I got after I spent 4 days putting almost 400 miles on it in the Mountains East of San Diego’s 2 years ago convinced me I was tired of cutting out rust for the two previous years and wanted a BE I could drive now, not in another 3-4 years with still working full time. Bill started sending me listings for BE’s for sale and he found the listing for Bugsy IV. I also got to see what Scott did with Bills BE with breathed upon 1275, 5 speed, discs, rebuilt suspension front and rear and all the gotchas well sorted. Bill’s BUGI is a marvel to drive and totally stable on the I-15 at 80, 85 mph just staying with traffic and still with a lot of room left to go. It is a fabulous car and I now know how good Bugsy IV can be. Yes I spent a lot of money so far and well I could have bought a more reliable, faster, roadster but anyone can own a Miata. Everywhere I go I get smiles, thumbs up, what kind of car is that reactions. Anyone can own a Miata, few get to own a well sorted Bugeye.

 

[SD Bugeye]

Some of the parts for a bugeye are expensive
but as a whole there is a lot smaller percentage of them than most cars.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

And it all depends on what you are looking to build / tinker with.