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New owner, brake and temp. gauge questions.

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highhilleer

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I did a post on the new member introduction forum, so I'll jump straight to the problems I'm currently having.

I haven't driven a car w/o power brakes for a while, but I just do not think the brakes on my 79 midget are right. Applying as much force as I can to the pedal only results in a modest slowing down of the vehicle. It will eventually stop, but it just doesn't seem right. I pulled the wheels last night and the rotors and pads on the front look fine. I didn't pull the rear drums yet, but they do have some drag which feels about right. The car only has 20k miles so I suspect the pads and shoes are original. (The tires are original to the car - and they will be gone soon!) It did not lose brake fluid on a 720 mi. test drive. Any ideas?

During the drive my temp. gauge stopped working. I did a search on temperature gauges and found some really complex stuff!!! I hope the posts were about older gauges. Are there some diagonistic tests I can use to start to locate the source of the problem?

Thanks
 
when I got my '74, my brakes felt the same exact way.

problem was with the rear brakes, they were almost completely out of adjustment.

remove your rear wheel, and on the back of the brake drum there is a square adjustment bolt that you will tighten up until it starts to grab the wheel, then back it off a click

after doing that all my problems went away.

this takes all of 10 minutes to do, so I would check that out before doing anything else.

hope that helps.

joe
 
Hi... err... John?

Joe is right about adjusting the rear pads. Quick test... when you apply your parking brake, does the handle come all the way up? If so, your rear brakes need adjusting.

A couple of other thoughts... if your brake hoses are original, they may be flexing, or internally collapsed. You can jack each corner, apply moderate brake pressure and feel the hoses / see if it locks up the wheel. New hoses are readily available, as are metal braided hose.

Moss Motors and Victoria British sell kits that contain all the serviceable parts. They sometimes go on sale - I would suggest grabbing a kit if you think you'll need one.
 
My WAG is either the flex lines are swollen internally and restricting or the pistons are hung in the bores. Lines and caliper kits are resonably priced and you're an engineer...:thumbsup:

Since the car gets most of its stopping power from the fronts I'd be fixin' that kinda soon. :wink:

The temp gauge on your car is electrically activated. No "ether bulb contests", just some judicious electron chasin'.
 
Thanks for the replies. It takes 10 clicks to set the parking brake, I read somewhere it should be 4. The right side brake has what I'm used to as a normal amount of drag, but the right side is pretty loose. I'll make adjustments on both. This should tighten up the parking brake, but isn't there a seperate adjustment for the parking brake?
 
Another brake issue on the later cars is the brake junction valve what ever it's called. There is a shuttle valve inside, if it gets stuck, the rear brakes will not activate with the pedal.
I do not know the fix, there is one but I just get rid of that thing and go back to pre 68 spec brake systems on all my Sprites.
 
there is a separate adjustment for the emergency brake, before you adjust the rear brakes you should let out the adjustment on the emergency brake, which is to the left of the pumpkin on the rear diff(if I remember correctly). you are adjusting a cable with a spin nut adjustment, increasing/decreasing the size of the outside emergency brake cable, but like on our old 10-speed bikes.

adjust both rear brakes, then pull up the emergency brake 4 clicks then get back under the car and using the spin nut adjust the brake until the rear brakes tighten up.

that should do it.

ohh, there is a grease nipple for the emergency brake line, may as well squirt some in while under the car.

joe
 
Brake cable adjustment is just as the cable goes into the tunnel.
 
Well the way I work the rear brake adjustment took a lot longer than 10 min. It is interesting using the "clicking" adjuster. At one point there was no/little drag, next click produced some drag, and one more click and the drum could not be moved! If that is right, it takes the guess work out. I haven't adjusted the parking brake, but it is one click tighter from adjusting the brakes.

I couldn't test the brakes as the tires are off the wheels to allow a proper cleaning and repaint. However, the adjustment was so small that I do not believe the brake problem is fixed. Any further work on the brakes will have to wait to this weekend when I'll have a pedal pusher available.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll keep you posted.
 
so how many clicks did you finally adjust each side?

I think mine was about 4 or 5 clicks out of adjustment, and that made all the difference in the world.

did you do both sides? if yes, were they both equally out of adjustment? did your emergency brake come more into adjustment after fixing the rear brakes?

once you get them both in proper adjustment, and if the problem is still there, you might want to flush/refill your hydraulic brake fluid, you may have air in the lines which will produce the same symptoms you are describing. did you check the brake fluid level? is there anything in there?

you can purchase a hand brake bleeder from a motorcycle or auto parts store for maybe $40. with the hand bleeder you can do this job yourself and it is easy to use.

good luck, keep us posted

joe
 
I loosened the passenger side enough to remove the drum and see there was plenty of meat on the shoe and no signs of the cylinder leaking, so I do not know how many clicks it took. However, the resistance to turning the drum made me think it was adjusted right before I messed with it. The driver side took one click.

I got the parking brake adjusted to where it is firm at four clicks and fully locked at about six clicks. I may mess with it somemore, but it seems good for now.

I'll check into the hand bleeder, but nothing wrong with some quality garage time with the wife. The kids are gone so we need something to fill the weekends :smile:.
 
Parking brake should be hard at 4 clicks or about 45 degrees.
 
jlaird said:
Parking brake should be hard at 4 clicks or about 45 degrees.
Click to expand...

When I ask for and get advice, I try to follow it. So I adjusted the parking to full on at four clicks. Problem is when I releasse the parking brake the rear brakes are not fully released. About the best I can do is six clicks for full lock and full release. Does this indicate a problem? I pulled the drums and verified there is plenty of "meat" on the shoes.

Thanks for the input,
John

ps The engineer who decided to fully shroud the adjusting nut should be forced to perform this maintenance item for all Midgets for their entire life. If it was necessary to place the adjuster there they should have included a spacer to move the nut out. :frown:
 
Check out the official writeup in the Service Manual
https://www.spridget-tech.com/page3.html

pull the emergency brake to the 3rd click

adjust the hand brake cable until the wheels can just be moved with your hands

and thats basically it

i think the only thing you were doing differently is you were at 4 clicks on the hand brake, and you were adjusting the brake cable until the wheels couldn't be turned at all.

btw, have you test drove the car since you adjusted the rear brakes? any better?

joe
 
Thanks for that post. The manual us for up to a 74 and I have a 79 but it looks like the brakes are the same or very similar. Since I started this post, the BL workshop manual I ordered came in and indeed the process is the same as in the manual you posted. I think the parking brake is now properly adjusted. It just takes about 6 clicks for a full stop of the parking brake handle.

I haven't driven the car. Currently the tires are off the wheels so that I can repaint the wheels. Some DPO had painted the wheels all silver and there was some rust showing. This just wouldn't do on such a clean car. I should have the wheels repainted this weekend and the tires I ordered should be in on Monday. If I get a chance I'll do a test drive on Monday and make a post.


Thanks again
John
 
With a lovely pic I hope.
 
Well it looks like I have a big clue about why the brakes are not performing up to snuff. Yesterday while bleeding the brakes the wife noticed some fluid on the brake pedal, I cleaned that off and kept with the bleeding; sure enough fluid returned so it was not one of those self healing problems.

Bottom line is it looks like there is an issue with the master cylinder. How much success is there with the rebuild kits, or should I jump straight to replacing the master cylinder?

Thanks
 
Your choice of course, but if you have it rebuilt by White Post or Apple for example with sleaving and such it will never be done again.
 
Well, I'll try the rebuild, the kit is cheap and my time is even cheaper. While I'm at it, I'll change the rubber lines, and rebuild the calipers, replace the pads and shoes. The rear cylinders look fine, so I'll trust them for now. If that doesn't fix it, I'll take the car to a professional.
 
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