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new idea on 5 speed?

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It sounds vaguely familiar and looks interesting.
 
My neighbor had a T-5 from a Mustang he was working on sitting on his driveway. I had a spare tran from my 1500 lying around and layed it up against the t-5 to compare dimensions. The measurements were shockingly close. The biggest differences were the length and diameter of the imput shaft and the width of the body. I did not weigh the unit, but it's all aluminum construction seemed to be lighter than the cast iron of the 1500 unit.

I looked up gear ratios once, but all I recall is thinking that they were pretty close to stock for the 1500.

If I had an A-series Spridget, I would be very, very tempted to bid.
 
Always looking to upgrade my car! What will the difference in performance/output be between this T5 trans and the rivergate b210 already in my car? Thanks!

Mustafa
 
I'd wonder what exactly is needed to do to modify a T-5 to bolt up to the A-series. I'd really prefer this to the Datsun as seems it'd be cheaper and parts would be more available (and cheaper) to service the trans.
 
This box is very heavy duty, and in my opinion, overkill in terms of an A series, it was designed to handle 300 hp and them some. I've had one of these boxes before in a ford, and it is very similar in dimensions to a Ford Series-9, which are probably cheaper still and exceeds the demands a spridget can put on it.
With that in mind, I would assume the modifications would be close to the Ford series 9 to make it fit.
The 'Ford' referred to in this link is the series 9.
https://www.mgcars.org.uk/midgetspriteclub/sprite/sprite5speed.htm
I'm holding off on the 5-speed until I can get of these 9's, I may end up having one shipped from UK....
 
I like the fact that it has the stock Spridget bell housing welded up to work, i.e. allowing the stock hydraulics for the clutch etc. I would like to see where the shifter comes out in the interior. I do not think I could live with it if it comes out too far back! I would also like to know how much heavier than stock it would be! As far as overkill on its beefiness, I would rather have something that could take all I could give it than be too "delicate". /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Mustafa, I would think that since you already had a 5 speed, the ratios would probably not be different enough to give you any major gains base on the article in the link above!
 
Thats like putting a Turbo 400 in a Pinto.
 
I am curious as to the difference in size to the Mazda M5R2 transmission that ford put in the 1985/89 Thunderbird SC. It looks like the T5 in the pictures however it doesn't appear to be as wide. Of course it is hard to tell in pictures. There are more than one version of the M5R2 tranny. The one that Ford put in the trucks had a center top load shifter where the one they used in the Thunderbird had the extension that placed the shifter over the tail shaft. Has anyone checked one out?
 
I have no expertise on the subject. I would simply like to add some matters to consider when going into this conversion. First off, rotating mass!!! How much of the limited horsepower we are presented with do you want to spend spinning the components in the box?
Second, space in the tunnel is at a premium. A gearbox which has a bellhousing with flanges to bolt it externally (i.e. all T-5 boxes) will require cutting to fit. There are T-9 boxes with mounting bolts inside the bellhousing such as our existing T-7 box has which may be a better fit.
My last concern is, where will the shifter be positioned when this is all done? Small concern to some, but for myself the way the shifter falls right into my hand in the Midget is one of the reasons I chose this car over many others. I'd also rather not have to cut a larger hole in the tunnel to reposition the shift lever. hmmmm
This conversion is something I hope to do someday, but all the nagging questions and limited availibility of parts and knowledge for a 1500 swap keeps me from jumping in.

That was my $.02. Carry on.
 
The components in the t5 are a bit bigger and heavier than that in the stock gearbox, but the t5 has much better bearings and is filled with ATF fluid rather than heavy gear oil like the stock 1500 box. I am not an expert myself, but I think that should come pretty close to making up for the mass. As for tunnel space, if it will fit into a 1275 tunnel (the seller of the box on eBay swears that it will) then it will fit in a 1500 tunnel. If it is possible to mount the 1500 bell housing flush to the front of the t5, the gear shifter should fit close to stock if I remember my measurements. Don't quote me on that one, my memory is fuzzy.

Anyway, I have my eye on a t5 I may be able to pick up for $50. If the deal happens, I will be able to answer all of these questions accurately. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Oh yeah, on the whole t9 thing. I am pretty sure it requires cutting the tunnel, too. The t9 conversion came about in the UK where t9's are plentiful and cheap. On this side of the pond, unless you want to by an expensive imported unit, they are rarer than the Datsun boxes used for the Morris/Rivergate setup. The t5, on the other hand, has been used on probably hundreds of thousands of cars since the late 70's. It was originally developed for Ford and AMC 4's and inline 6's. It has been used in Jeeps, Camaros, Mustangs, S-10's, Thunderbirds, Toyotas (I think) and many more cars that I do not know about. It is probably one of the most plentiful gearboxes in the US today. AND it's still being made!

But if you are still interested in the t9, check out quantumechanics.com . They sell rebuilt units (imported from J.O.E.) and make kits for several LBCs including the 1500 Spit.

Oh yeah, (if you can't tell, this is an exciting subject for me) there is a company in Australia that uses Toyata Supra boxes for LBC conversions. I would love for someone to give that a try and let us know how it goes!

Oh yeah on more time. I emailed the guy who is selling the converted t5 on eBay to get info on how he set up the input shaft. The Mustang input shaft is waaaaaay to big for a Spridget. He told me he had a machine shop cut the t5 shaft off at the first motion gear and weld a shaft from a spridget box on in it's place. Cheap and simple. Although, I would personally be leary of putting on more than the 60-80 ft.Lbs. of torque most of our spridgets make.
 
Position of the shift lever is also a top priority for me. I feel as you do mgblue! I had not considered the question of rotating mass with such an "overkill" unit, but you are right for sure!
 
The seller wrote that this T5 is from a Mustang. There are LOTS of different positions for the shifter depending on what the original vehicle was.

I have one from a S10. The shifter (if used) would be under the dash. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

The Camaro/Firebird would be behind the current shifter hole.

The Ford T5 (Mustang) puts the shifter just about the same as the current Spridget but I believe that due to how the shifter moves (it's pivot point is lower than the stock transmission) you lose the stock shifter cover and may have to "center" the shifter hole.

It is interesting about how he changed the input shaft. I will have to get with my engineering friends and see what they think of that.

Paul
 
Oh, yeah the input shaft, flywheel, clutch all that too... I have seen conversions with the clutch slave on the front side of the bellhousing (multi port 2.8 or 3.1 swap?) We aren't concerned with that as we want to keep the original motor and lower our revs in top gear right?

Ok, on the topic of rotating mass and ATF vs. 90wt. hypoid, talked to another machinist who has more experience working with gear sets, gearboxes, etc. in industrial applications and asked him what his thoughts are on the lighter fluid medium offsetting the added rotating mass and he seems to think that all things considered it would be a wash. In other words, more mass offset by less viscious resistance brings you back to requiring about the same force needed to spin the gear set originally. He also has a T-5 out of a Chevy Astro which I have been checking out and it looks as though the shifter would be about where it should be for my needs. Much too long, of course but that's what hacksaws and welders are for hehehehehehe.

Now, let's come up with a better solution for the input/first motion shaft than cutting and welding. I could see having it turned down on a lathe, but by the time you put all the work into it to pull it, machine it and replace it... There has to be a better way.
 
One nice thing about the t9 conversion over the t5 is that you can use a clutch from a Hillman Avenger. It's about the same size as the stock 1500 clutch and the splines match right up to the t9 input shaft.

You may be able to make a custom cluth plate for the t5. But at the very least you would have to turn the part of the input shaft that fits in the pilot bearing.

The eBay guy claims to have raced a full season with the welded up input shaft....
 
Just what is the diameter of the tip of the input shaft? and how far does the input shaft protrude past the front of the bellhousing?
Bill
 
Big and far...

I will try to get some more details soon. If I am not able to buy the box I have my eye on, I will go back over to my neighbors and measure his again.
 
any more info on the T-5 conversion? if its possible the t-5 would be a great option to the datsun 210 or the ford t-9 conversions simply because they are more plentiful, are practically bulletproof in this application and there are even 6 spd versions available.

I'd be game.


I like resurrecting old posts btw!
 
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