miata engine swap

[kmcormick9]

what would you guys recommend as the simplest swap i can do. i prefer something recent, thats fuel injected, reasonably powerful (at least 100hp), 4 cylinder, and fits without cutting up the transmission tunnel

 

[Guest]

Tom Bedenburgh 1275 with a Rivergate 5 speed in a Midget

 

[tony barnhill]

Unfortunately, he has a '76 rubber bumper Midget...now, think Colin Chpman: less weight to horsepower ratio = speed...maybe the answer is trimming some of the weight& then get the potential out of the 1500 engine...there are ways to shed 400 or 500 pounds from that lttle car!

 

[thegoodbeamer]

Very intersting thread.I do enjoy hearing all the conversions that are dreamed up.
I have done the Ford V6 and Ford V8 conversions to the Alpine.For the all out fun quotient I go with my 62 V6.It has been bored, larger valves,heads planed.Offy manifold planed to match with the Holly 390 4 barrel.Estimated output is around the 160 to 170Hp.Great cruiser for the highways.For sheer power,The 351 Windsor in the Alpine is something else.A relatively conservative modified engine with the T5 tranny connected to the Ford 8" rear end.It was ran 12 times on the dyno.HP is 270 and 330 pounds of torque through most of the rpm till about 3400 rpms before slightly dropping off.There is not too much stock on this one and I do call it the Spirit of Lister as it wwas built that way and not an exact replica.
Keep on thinking guys.

and it is still top down afternoons but not much longer so will get out there this afternoon.

 

[Guest]

the 1275 will still fit won't it Tony, and woould make a better starting point. Putting the car on a diet would help too

 

[tony barnhill]

With ome minor work, yes, it would fit...lemme see the differences: carbs on oposite side, radiator mounting points different, tranny tunnel different as is shift location (I think)...&, there could be other differences
...but, to use the 1275 in that 'hog', he's gonna have to lose some weight or even a built 1275 won't perform to its ful potential

 

[Super 7]

I understand that the ford "Duratech" has lots of potential. Similar to Zetec, but all aluminum. Birkin importers are starting to mess with it.

When I was a teenager, a neighbor of mine dropped a stock Cortina GT crossflow with the stock semi close ratio transmission. in to a Sprite. It was one peppy Bugeye.

I'm wanting to put a modern Ford driveline in one of the Cortinas. The problem with the Type 9, or the standard T-5, is the lousy ratios. They both have a nice overdrive, but the stump puller first gear is a non starter for me. No good for autocross.

You can buy a rebuilt Type 9 with a new Quaife close ratio gearset for $1800.00 to $2000.00

Type 9 is the "Merkur" 5 speed. Type 9's have two lengths of input shaft, but there are bel housings to make either work. I did not know that there were T-5's used on 4 cylinder mustangs. Thats interesting

You will need an oil pan and pickup to put the Zetec in your MG. They are available from Caterham and from Birkin, I'm not sure about crossmember clearance.

I am no expert on this, but I have been doing a little research on it, just seeing what's out there.

There are bolt in kits made in England ot put a Zetec in a MK 1 or MK 2 Escort (RWD sedan & base for Capri), Harry Potter style Anglia, and I believe for the MK 1 & Mk 2 Cortina. I have not yet been able to find good information on them though. A company called "Retro Ford" makes them.

 

[Baxter]

Whole tranny is different with the 1275. The 1500 isn't a good motor, but the Spit guys have managed to wring half-decent power out of it.
I'm with you, Tony... the simplest answer is a diet. I can't think of ANY engine (except maybe a rotary) that meets the requirements outlined above. Even then, the FI brings in a whole new world of pain.

 

[kmcormick9]

chuck and tony, i have been over the 1275 option before and the major issue that is prompting me to consider a different engine is the reliability factor. no matter what we do, these old british plants arent that reliable.
with a imminent need for a rebuild of the engine in the car now, at a cost of $3000, i figure i could get a newer engine and tranny for around $500 and have $2500 to get it in the car and at the end of the day, i will be able to go over 70 mph and have no worrys about taking it on a road trip

 

[lawguy]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Super 7:
I understand that the ford "Duratech" has lots of potential. Similar to Zetec, but all aluminum. Birkin importers are starting to mess with it....<hr></blockquote>

The Duratech is a DOHC 60 degree V6- there would be significant space issues, but more power to them if they can make it fit.

 

[Super 7]

Thats interesting. The fellow I was talking to at Rocky Mountain Sportscars indicated it was an inline twincam four with that name. Perhaps I misunderstood. He also said that the inlet and exhaust side on the head were switched compared to the Zetec. That doesn't sound like a V6. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by lawguy:


The Duratech is a DOHC 60 degree V6- there would be significant space issues, but more power to them if they can make it fit.<hr></blockquote>

 

[PC]

The Duratec family of engines includes the I4 (which I haven't yet seen here in the Colonies), a variety of V6's (Ford, Lincoln and Jaguar all have their own flavor) and extends up through Aston Martin's incredible V12's.


PC.

 

[Guest]

any newer engine and tranny you csn get for 500 in a scrapyard is not gonna be that much more reliable. I am a major fan of the chevy v6 swap, but plan on spending way more than 500 for the engine alone

 

[adam90009]

In my MGB I'm gonna put a fors ZX3 (ztec) from an svt focus with a six speed. I want to get a crate engine but I'm not sure how much one would cost.

 

[tony barnhill]

Now, first: Don't get angry about what I'm about to say...but: BUY A MIATA!!

Now, my long rant:

My 'old' MG engines are just as reliable if not more so than newer engines - when properly maintained per published maintenance schedules! ...&, that's no different from any other car...how about 100,000 miles on a bone stock completely original MG engine? Yep, I've got one - never turned a wrench on it other than normal maintenance...&, I'm the only owner & driver so I know about which I speak!....&, all I expect to do in the near future is more maintenance!....How about engines that were personally built in my garage for way less than $2000 getting more than 100,000 miles before needing anything other than maintenance? Come on down & I'll walk you through such a collection!

Those who fall prey to the 'lousy' British engineering, Lucas Prince of Darkness or British unreliability philosophies shouldn't be caring for an LBC - sure, LBC's have the same type problems as any other car but all those urban legends about Lucas unreliability or terrible engineering are a result of DFPO's (dumb f%*%ing previous owners)who should've never owned one in the first place...once those of us who are drivers bring one of their LBC's under our wing, we are immediately forced to reverse all their unique American engineering modifications! (Have you ever wondered why Volkswagen advertises for 'drivers' not owners?)

You see, when these little cars hit our shores, they were something different than the big land yachts Detroit was pushing on Americans...they required the driver (notice I didn't say owner) to be attuned to his steed...&, they shouted out that the driver must be able to hear what that steeed was telling him/her....both at a time when Detroit was telling car owners to just enjoy the ride & stop by their dealer often!

Now, don't get me wrong...I'm an advocate of wringing the most power possible out of my MG's - heck, I'm even a transplant kinda guy (Rover V8 underway, Chevy V6 in planning stages) but I do it for a different reason: individuality & speed! NOT RELIABILITY!....&, my everyday drivers remain the plain old 4-cylinder, primarily stock MG-engined cars! (& the mods are mainly modernization items!)...&, I'm not adverse to taking off across country in an MG - with no trunk full of repair parts! Heck, I once even took my bride on a long trip from east-central Kansas to San Antonio, Texas expecting my MG to perform as flawlessly as any other vehicle which it did! &, when my daughter's BMW required major repair while she was in law school that put it in the shop for a couple of weeks, I took her an MG to drive - & she was several hours away from me..do you think I would've given her an 'unreliable' car - her being a single young female law student alone in a big city?

So, having said all that - & stopping to save Basil bandwidth, I'll repeat: if you aren't comfortable jumping in an MG & driving it anywhere: BUY A MIATA!

 

[aerog]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kmcormick9:
... no matter what we do, these old british plants arent that reliable. <hr></blockquote>

I have a hunch Tony might argue that point. I really don't have any experience with the specific engine in the Midget, but the 1800cc engine in the MGB has been as reliable an engine as I've ever had, and hasn't let me down in the slightest even on long (1000+mile) trips.

Do I feel more comfortable taking long trips in my Miata? Sure - because I've put a couple of thousand "test miles" on it and it's new. I'd feel equally comfortable with the MG after a fresh but tested/broken in engine. I surely wouldn't feel "comfortable" driving cross country in a $500 wrecker Miata engine. Rebuilt/new Miata engine prices are, as I recall, on-par with the MGB engines (unless you're going to rebuild it yourself then the point is moot either way)

Good luck!

[ 10-22-2003: Message edited by: aerog ]</p>

 

[Baxter]

Let me be another voice saying MG engines are tough as nails, and as reliable as most other engines. When they do break, they're a lot easier to fix, too. And yes, I've driven Bs all over, in all kinds of conditions. How bout 900 miles across the desert, in summertime, averaging more than 80 mph? Never had a hitch.
A Midget 1275 motor is just a great motor. The 1500 can still take you up well past 100 mph if you know how to wring it.
Tony's right... you should tune whatcha got, and put the RB Midget on a diet (fighting weight for a midget is well under 2000 pounds).
For 3k you can get a pretty decent Miata.

 

[GTsRFine]

Enjoyed your rant Tony. One caveat - Most of the newbies (including me) aren't buying well-done restorations so they have a raft of problems to start with:
DPO bodges, rust, contact oxidation, plastic switch part degradation, bad grounds, old grease, etc.
Several items to consider:
First - For the price of a finished motor/trans transplant (includes final tuneup and all the fiddly-bits), you could probably get a well-done restoration.
Second - Read Baxter's post again.
Third is the tinker factor. If you have the facilities and want to put that Mack bio-diesel into that '60 Bugeye to see if it will work - well why not - go for it.
Fourth is the speed lust thing. MGs are not the fastest, nor the most road-hugging, nor the most powerful car on the road, nor the most comfortable. They are built for Response. Steering is quick. The long bore makes the stock engine very torquey and quick to respond to pedal input.

 

[GTsRFine]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> with a imminent need for a rebuild of the engine in the car now, at a cost of $3000<hr></blockquote>

Whoa !! Who's doing that engine rebuild? Is that on a 1500 engine? I'm doing a 1500 engine now and have only about $750 in parts and machine shop bills. That $750 includes a dual carb intake & Pace exhaust header.

 

[tony barnhill]

Now you see my point! "reliability" isn't a reason for an engine swap..."$3000" is way too much for a home-built engine! Heck, for that much he could have Tom Bedenbaugh build him a monster 1500 engine that'd smoke most v6's!