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Jule Superstructure

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Andrew_Grannis

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My father and I have been in the process of getting our BT7 back on the road for about four years now. I made this post in the Racing section a few days ago and have gotten some great input from both Doug and Dave.
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ubbthreads.php/topics/813678/Getting_into_racing#Post813678

The rough quote we got was right around 25,000 to retub the car and hang the fenders and shrouds. Becuase we are thinking about turning this car into a racer, we don't particularly care if the panel gaps are concours perfect.
We looked into a Jule chassis/superstructure kit a few years ago but didn't really consider it as at that time, we were thiking we could just weld in some supports for the outriggers. Looking back at their website yesterday, I am very interested as it would be a cost of $8000 plus shipping and other charges to have what is effectively a brand new frame.
I would love to hear input from anyone who has experience with the Jule chassis in terms of:
1. Build quality
2. Originality (I know the metal they use is slightly thicker and it weights 50lbs. more)
3. Whether or not the car would still qualify for vintage racing with the Jule chassis
4. Anything else!

Any and all input is greatly appreciated and many thanks in advance!

-Andrew
 
Andrew_Grannis said:
My father and I have been in the process of getting our BT7 back on the road for about four years now. I made this post in the Racing section a few days ago and have gotten some great input from both Doug and Dave.
https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcforum/ubbthreads.php/topics/813678/Getting_into_racing#Post813678

The rough quote we got was right around 25,000 to retub the car and hang the fenders and shrouds. Becuase we are thinking about turning this car into a racer, we don't particularly care if the panel gaps are concours perfect.
We looked into a Jule chassis/superstructure kit a few years ago but didn't really consider it as at that time, we were thiking we could just weld in some supports for the outriggers. Looking back at their website yesterday, I am very interested as it would be a cost of $8000 plus shipping and other charges to have what is effectively a brand new frame.
I would love to hear input from anyone who has experience with the Jule chassis in terms of:
1. Build quality
2. Originality (I know the metal they use is slightly thicker and it weights 50lbs. more)
3. Whether or not the car would still qualify for vintage racing with the Jule chassis
4. Anything else!

Any and all input is greatly appreciated and many thanks in advance!

-Andrew
Click to expand...
The $8000 is a starting point. It does not include shipping RT to Canada but Marty is very reasonable. I did a Jule chassis in 2009 and had more things done than the standard package. You'll want the body panels to fit and Marty will take it as far as you want to spend. I did have my sub-chassis painted base coat, clear coat. The frame does not flex when I've been reassembling my Healey!
The body panels are lined up with the swag line as a minumum. It is best to call Marty to discuss your project.
 
Andrew,
The last thing you need is another 50 lbs of weight in a racecar. The stock Healey chassis is more than adequate. Just look at the history of Healeys rallying throughout Europe in the 1960s. That was more brutal than any vintage racing you will ever do to your chassis in the 21st century. A good 6 point roll bar will strengthen your frame and eliminate any and all flexing.
Support for your outriggers is a non issue. A little gusset here and there at your suspension pickup points and for the motor mounts is all you need. Do not go welding in a lot of steel in places where it is not needed.
 
Patrick - Thanks for the input. Speaking with him will be on my list for the next month to gather more information about pricing.

Richard - I definitely understand your point. I suppose my job for my winter break will be taking a very carefull look at all areas of the frame to determine how much of it will have to be replaced.

Thanks guys.
 
A fellow club member has two extremely nice BJ8s. One with a Jule's chassis and one without. I asked if he recommended having it done and he said he would not go through having one built again. Thats his personal opinion and nothing against Marty.
 
I speak from experience here Andrew. The thing you need to keep in mind is that a lot of Healey's start out as "racers", but after the racings years revert back to drivers or car show contenders. So, I would go ahead with the Jule frame modifications then enjoy your racing. When the time comes to sell you'll be grateful.
 
FHIW...I drove a Jules frame roadster and it was the tightest roadster I have ever driven. If I needed a frame I wouldn't hesitate to go with a Jules frame... it would be my first choice. IMHO

Cheers,
Steve
https://stevesaustinhealey.com
 
David K - Thanks for that, did your fellow member give you any specific reasons as to why?

Johnny - Great point. My Dad and I really want to keep street drivability, maybe the extra 50 lbs. is worth it... Plus, I'm average size at best so I bet most drivers have 50 lbs. on me at the least haha.

Steve - Great to know! And by the way, I love your website, so much great information and you did a fantastic job on your car.
 
Andrew, I have Marty's frame in my BT7. Solid as a rock. No shake, rattle or roll. I would do it again, but I agree with previous posters that you should talk to Marty.
Lin
 
Hi Andrew, I started off with a pretty bad frame. It would flex approximately an 1 1/2" before the jack would lift the car off the ground. Probably would have been tragic had I left both doors open for any length of time. We went around the car and replaced each peace one at a time. We also did spot welds similar to the original accept every inch. Lots of welding! It paid off! Now the doors open great! And there is zero flex. We considered a jule frame but decided it was a lot more work. My 100 has a Chevy 283, 5 speed and 87 corvette IRS. there's no question in my mind that my frame isn't strong enough. Good luck!
 
I also have a Jule frame on my BJ8. the original was not up to the task of keeping the car on the road. I am happy with my results. I think the car rides much better than my BN4. The frame is not flexing so the suspension works. I decided that I wanted to keep my car for another 20 years. I don't think the original frame would have lasted another 5.

Jerry
BJ8
BN4
 
Well if you get a bad frame it may need to be replaced. However, a good original frame that is properly taken care should go the stretch.--Fwiw--Keoke
 
Andrew, I guess it's not important if you race the car, unless they require proof the car is original, but your car has a horizontal grille but chrome door tops which are for later model cars. So, either the grille's wrong or the doors have been replaced?
Your car doesn't look like its been wrecked so that's a good thing. Not a bad looking car at all.

Good luck with your resto, any way you go, there'll be another Healey on the road.
 
I just looked at the photo of Andrew's car and Johnny is correct. The grille is from either a 100-6 or Mark 1 roadster (1959-1962) as is the windshield, but the doors are Mark 11 or 111 with roll up windows. I didn't know roll up windows would work with the flat style windshield. Has anyone seen this conversion before and do the windows actually roll up?
 
Thanks for the continued responses guys, it's very helpful!

Johnny and Rob - What we have been able to figure out is that the car is originally a BT7 (I can get the full body number when I am back home tomorrow) that the previous owner put convertible doors on (I believe BJ8 becuase of the style of handle), a BJ8 engine and a BJ8 vin. The windows do roll up, but we don't have a top so I don't know how well/if they would seat in the top. If someone is curious, I know my dad did have a top back when he bought the car in the 80's, so I'm sure he would know.
 
 
I see one hole in the top of the left frame rail. Other than that, it looks like sills, outriggers and floors. That's what I replaced on mine as the main frame rails were usable.
 
Andrew_Grannis said:
As I've said before, I really appreciate all of your help guys. Today I took some pictures of the rust issues to help convey the condition of the car to all of you.

EDIT 2: first and second link were bad. Lets try this...

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7166/6507142707_31dea30ed6_z.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7151/6507140363_0003b2e197_z.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7169/6507135999_0259c761c7_z.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6507132025_a11b6c94d7_z.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6507129411_0a6f9cdb20_z.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7014/6507126731_ddda32dfb8_z.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7154/6507124191_6a3405444d_z.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7033/6507118489_c6d6fbe666_z.jpg
Click to expand...
Your car will have to be sandblasted to see the real extent of the damage. I was surprised to see my car sandblasted showing all the damage that was not seen before the sandblasting. If your rails are good Martin will tell you and if not he'll tell you. He can usually check the frame for compression bulges. etc. before he takes your car away to work on it.
 
My car was acid dipped by the po and I'd thoroughly recommend it to anyone over media blasting. The rust in my car was quite a bit less than yours but I chose to replace the chassis with a Kilmartin one because I had no real way of ensuring everything is aligned after repair work. I got a quote from a resto shop to fix up the original chassis and it was about the same as getting a new one.

Once you get all the crud and paint off it you'll see a lot of stuff that isn't ideal such as stress cracks around the engine mounts, a bow in the rear rails right below the diff, previous repairs, jacking damage etc.

Unless you are on an extremely tight budget, replacing the frame will make a much nicer car out of it in the end.

Some pics of my chassis damage in this thread

Andy.
 
Andrew, I believe that Martin makes a nice frame. I talked with him before I started my project. I ultimately decided to fix what I had. Here's why, my car is and will always be for me a driver. That's why I want it. To drive and drive alot. It is never ment for Concours. My car drove beautifully, straight and smooth and with no torque steer for 7 summers before I took it apart. My door gaps didn't hit or chip paint. I knew when I was done with it it would be even stronger that it had been. I did replace two outriggers. I inspected the frame extensively and was satisfied that it was enherantly strong. Now also recognizing that the frame was deliberately built as a light weight piece. I believe the more power you put to it, it will flex, especially if your putting v8 power to it. If you race it, it will flex. But then most things flex during racing. I guess that part depends on at what level you want to race at. The Jules frame is a beautiful piece,I have read that it might not be accepted in top level Concours judging. I really don't know about that, but it would be a consideration if Concours judging is what you would have in mind. If your frame is very bad, I mean outriggers gone, some serious rot in the main frame rails. Or the trunk cross members,etc, or you want a very strong frame for racing, then I would consider a Jules frame. I have a friend who has run a vintage sports car shop for 30+ years. He has replaced about every part of a Healey frame at one time or another and some on accident damaged cars. they have always come out well and each of those jobs is not that big of a deal. I don't want to take away from one of Martins frames, If you need a frame that's what I would get. But the frame is just the beginning of that project. Stop and think about placing and welding all of the upright internal structures and panels. Martin has all the jigs, you don't. You are literally building the car from scratch
 
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