Spitfire I'm soon to be a Spitfire owner again!

[jdubois]

Well, I could only hold out four months without a Spitfire! Sold my 1980 last April to a nice fellow in the next town over and began the search for 'the' Spitfire. You know the one- low miles, no rust, great mechanicals, all original, fair price. Well, I found it! 1965 Spitfire Mark II, 23K miles, runs great, never rebuilt, completely original except for six year old respray. I'm excited! The deal is made but money hasn't changed hands yet, so I'm still keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Again, WOW! With the exception of the red valve cover (which should be a sort of coppery-gold color), it does appear to be almost painfully original (or as original)...and gorgeous! A truly worthy candidate for preservation...and great enjoyment!

 

[Harry_Ward]

Looks real nice by the photos! Good Luck with the deal!

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif

 

[jdubois]

With the exception of the red valve cover (which should be a sort of coppery-gold color)

Awesome, my first project! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

[Andrew Mace]

...and you can come reasonably close to the original color with a can of Dupli-Color GM "Camel" 286...if that's still readily available as an off-the-shelf touchup. (It was several years ago now that I bought several cans for that very purpose!)

 

[jdubois]

...and you can come reasonably close to the original color with a can of Dupli-Color GM "Camel" 286

Hmm, from a quick search of the web it doesn't look promising for that DupliColor anymore. Apparently it's GM Color Code 63 though, so I'm sure I could get some paint mixed up with that color code. Also apparently they used to paint GTOs that color... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif

 

[Guest]

Nice looking Spitfire. I love the grill work on the original early Spifires.

 

[eejay56]

That is truly a beauty.

 

[billspit]

If you are getting that for a "reasonable price" you are making out like a bandit. That's a great car!

My only advice is you should have given him a deposit to hold it (assuming you didn't). I've had a couple of items bought out from under me. I'm a slow learner.

 

[jdubois]

I know, I can't believe the price either. I'm going down to close the deal as soon as I can! I'm definitely afraid of either getting down there and finding it's been misrepresented or have him raise the price when I get there. He seemed like a really good guy on the phone though, and said his first priority was that the car go to somebody who knew what it was, had experience with Spitfires, and would keep it in the original condition it was in. So it didn't sound like he was only about getting top dollar.

 

[myspitfire]

Congratulations for staying with another Spitfire.Safety wise your new one is a little more tenuous with safety issues so do remember your highschool driving lessons.Its a little more fragile than the 80.Obviously the previous owner had preservation in mind than restoration,so you'll probably need to balance out your owner/operator experience.
After all you now(or going to)own the only seat-of-the-pants REAL sportscar in existance BAR NONE!No other sportscar in todays world gives out so much fun quotient as the Triumph Spitfire.Ya gotta lovem.AND DRIVEM.
Ken&Whitelightning....And the guy that doesn't talk to & hug his Spitfire once in awhile is NOT a true enthusiast;-)

 

[jdubois]

Congratulations for staying with another Spitfire.Safety wise your new one is a little more tenuous with safety issues so do remember your highschool driving lessons.Its a little more fragile than the 80.

Thanks for the tips, I've never driven an early spit so I'm looking forward to the experience. I do already have a '60 TR3A, so I'm certainly familiar with a back end that can quickly skip out on you, and the non-syncro gearbox and whatnot, but have heard the early spits can be a bit twitchy like no other. Apparently the car does have a camber compensator on it, but I'm not terribly familiar with what that will or won't do for me.

I've arranged now to go down Saturday afternoon with a trailer to pick the car up in Stratford, CT!

 

[Andrew Mace]

IF it does have a camber compensator, that largely eliminates the tuck-under "problem" with the rear end swing axles. Other than that, a bit less padding in the interior and the lack of side anti-intrusion beams in the doors, it's structurally almost identical to your '80, so I don't really see any serious compromise in safety. Needless to say, if it doesn't have seat belts (although it certainly should have mounts already installed), put them in!

 

[jdubois]

This seems to explain the camber compensator pretty well. I generally knew about the issue, but didn't know the details. Interesting. How likely are you to encounter enough tuck under to introduce sever enough understeer to lose control? (I'm talking without the compensator installed). Am I right to assume that you'd have to be driving pretty aggressively before it became an issue?

 

[TR3driver]

As I understand it, all you have to do is hit a sizeable bump while going around a corner. There's a place in a freeway ramp I take every day ...

Also check out Unsafe at Any Speed. Should be at your local library.

 

[Aldwyn]

Oooh! I loves me some MkIIs! Congrats, man! (Make sure you get it!)

 

[billspit]

I know, I can't believe the price either. I'm going down to close the deal as soon as I can! I'm definitely afraid of either getting down there and finding it's been misrepresented or have him raise the price when I get there. He seemed like a really good guy on the phone though, and said his first priority was that the car go to somebody who knew what it was, had experience with Spitfires, and would keep it in the original condition it was in. So it didn't sound like he was only about getting top dollar.

I keep fantasizing about finding someone with a TR3 that has that emotion.

 

[Andrew Mace]

This seems to explain the camber compensator pretty well. I generally knew about the issue, but didn't know the details. Interesting. How likely are you to encounter enough tuck under to introduce sever enough understeer to lose control? (I'm talking without the compensator installed). Am I right to assume that you'd have to be driving pretty aggressively before it became an issue?

In my experience, yes, as the situation is most likely to happen when the car is already "at or near the limit"! Actually, it's OVERSTEER that would be induced, with the back end possibly losing grip completely. But I feel that other factors might have to come into play. For example, extremely fast and repeated transient maneuvers (think a high-speed slalom) might get you into the situation where the outside wheel would end up tucked under as well as the inside wheel. Sudden and fast braking while turning could also induce this, as the weight transfer goes to the front of the car (not a lot of anti-dive geometry in the average Herald-based suspension). This is sort of like a classic case of trailing-throttle oversteer.

I personally think that smooth driving would pretty much prevent the situation from happening in 99.9% of on-road driving. I do remember an instance or two on Interstate ramps in my Herald where I realized that I might have been having a bit too much fun (and carrying a bit too much speed) in entering what turned out to be a decreasing-radius turn. But staying gently yet firmly on the throttle and NOT going for the brake pedal kept me basically on the line and relatively level. (Yes, Heralds really do -- or can -- handle pretty well.)

Good modern radials will help a lot as well. Also, "static camber" setting in the rear end is somewhat critical; significant positive camber showing when the car is just sitting in your driveway is not a good thing. One cheap alternative recommended way back when was simply dearching the spring somewhat. "Works" racing Spitfires, such as the Le Mans fastback cars, used very stiff rear springs with, if anything, significant negative camber.

OH, and good shocks also can make a difference. I recently stumbled across an old pair of Koni rear shocks in my barn; I honestly didn't know I had them! I just got done earlier this evening setting them about one-half turn from full soft and tossing them on the Herald. All I can say after one quick drive around my local "test route" is WOW, what a difference! Both ride and handling are WAY better than before. Now to steal some front Konis off the long-stored autocross Spitfire in the barn (which won't get out for autocrossing any time soon, anyway).... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif

 

[jdubois]

Thanks for that reply Andrew. Yes, you're right, oversteer. I know I wrote understeer, but was thinking oversteer. Had visions of the car doing a 360 like the time some fool let me drive a viper on the track /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

I think I'm all set for tomorrow. I've got the car trailer lined up (stupid MA, not giving out temporary registrations), just gotta swing by the bank and get the money in the morning and head on down to CT. Course I'm going to have to bend over for the cash advance on my credit card, because I couldn't liquidate the money fast enough to hit my checking account in time. Oh well, I'm figuring it's worth the $150 or so finance charge to not delay another few days and risk losing the car.

 

[jdubois]

Went down to New Haven, CT today and trailered the Spit home without incident! It was pretty much exactly as described. I took it for a spin to make sure before I handed over the money. The engine purred like it was new, the brakes were firm, the clutch was smooth, the gearbox shifted clean, steering and suspension were quiet and precise. Beautiful. I have no trouble believing the 23K miles on the clock is authentic.

Cosmetically, it's not the world's best paint job, but it's 'good enough' and looks beautiful without close inspection, and its got a few parking lot dings on the doors, but otherwise it's perfect. The current owner documented all the rust spots that were there before the paint job, mostly in the front near the signal lights. Those were all repaired now, and not reappearing after six years means they were probably fixed right.

The interior is a bit worn, but all original and in pretty good shape for being 42 years old. Still has the original Triumph radio, which is a nice touch. Also has all the original books, and the tool kit with original bag. Even has the original bill of sale showing they traded in a '58 Bugeye for it. The original tonneau is perfect, and the original top is solid, but has a bit of water staining on the underside. They are both still in the original clear plastic bag that they came in. Two sets of original keys are also there, as well as a set of later keys, all on the original key chain from the dealer they bought it from. Can you see I'm using the word 'original' a lot? I'm very pleased.

Only mechanical issues are a non-functioning horn and a starter which doesn't disengage cleanly. The horn isn't a big deal, I'm sure. I'm figuring the starter just needs to be taken apart and cleaned up, because it doesn't have any trouble starting the car, just sounds like heck for a second or two after the engine fires up. Anyway, I wanna get that sorted out soon, on the chance it's chewing up the ring gear.

Andrew, thanks for the heads up on the rocker cover color. I asked the seller about it and he had painted it that orange color himself and confirmed it was more of a copper color before he did that.

Feels good to have a Spit in the garage again!