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I'm sick of pooptastic parts

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Stewart

Stewart

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This is getting old. Having done the mechanics of 2 b's now I'm getting sick of having to replace new parts that either don't fit, don't work, or fail shortly after install. This month alone I've had close to 300 bucks worth of new parts fail. The clutch slave that only lasted 1000 miles before leaking, the new angle drive that fell apart in my hands while being installed and to top it off today a new oil cooler with less than 150 miles on it sprung a big enough leak that I can see the trail of oil from the street through the parking lot and into my garage. Hopefully it will rain enough tonight to remove the evidence.

Suppliers I will pay more for quality parts please give me the option as in the end it will save me money.


Must enhance my calm
 
Yeah, the stop light switch I bought last year was the worst pile of crap I've ever seen. It still works, but only because I've repaired it (why would anyone have to repair a brand new part?). The distributor cap I just bought looks like it would be more suitable as an ash tray.

My B has the original oil cooler (which I tried as best as I could to clean out...I know that's mostly a waste of time). I'm going to replace it with a decent one from Summit Racing or just eliminate it altogether.
 
Stewart - where'd you get those 3 parts? I know I sent you a good, used angle drive to replace the bad new one....

Nial - I recently took an oil cooler to my local radiator shop...he treated it like a radiator - tanked, boiled, cleaned, pressurized - & its as good as new!
 
Good topic!

I won't start a debate on shoddy parts and the reasons for them being made down to a budget rather having them made correctly, and then pricing them to suit.

The only way to resolve the issue is for consumers to apply pressure on suppliers by not buying the stuff. I know, sometimes you have to, but in the case of MGs, I know that Tony can supply just about anything for these cars from his boneyard, and it's all OEM. Maybe that's a good way to start. I know that Tony will never supply a part from his boneyard that doesn't work.

Going back to the parts providers:

As a supplier gets bigger, the accountants start to excercise more control over business operations, and quality will be the first thing sacrificed in the name of the bottom line. Most consumers will always go for the cheapest option, and so the supplier has to be able to compete on price. Sad, but true.

We can use the clout that this forum provides to bring pressure to bear on the companies to supply good quality parts regardless of price, but we would then be honour-bound to buy those parts. We can't leave them hanging with expensive inventory that no-one will buy. Would we be prepared to do that? Some of us will without a doubt, but would all of us? Human nature being what it is, I seriously doubt it.

How do we go about this?
 
Great and timely topic for discussion. A few months ago I replaced a headlight switch which I got from Moss and found it was made in China. Lasted, at best, 2 weeks. Went back and rebuilt the old one which I now have in but am afraid that may go at any time. I've got relays on both headlights so the switch should be able to take it, but didn't.
Recently went to replace exhaust studs which I had also received from Moss and they were threaded different on each end when they both should have been 5/16-24. Reply I got was that they must have been old stock (no offer to replace them). But old stock from what?
I've even considered going to a different type of toggle headlight switch if I didn't have an inspection problem for state inspection in that I can't find one that will operate like the MGB rocker switch (76).
I, too, would definitely pay a higher price for a part that actually works and on which I can depend. Don't know what we can do but it's definitely worth the effort.
 
One question that intrigues me is whether or not the owners in the UK are having the same issues? OEM parts are more readily available, thanks to the Heritage program, and the MGOC over there has had several parts remanufactured by the original suppiers.

If this is indeed the case that means that the parts are available already, they just need to be paid for and shipped. THAT will be an expensive proposition, but might just be worth exploring.
 
The angle drive you sent is working great the rest is from moss and while I know they will replace or refund the money for the parts I'm still out the time and the return shipping along with the time lost having to do a job twice
 
Suggestion: Instead of simply replacing your original parts; have the originals rebuilt if they fail. John Twist's University Motors has a very comprehensive rebuilding program. They would have done your clutch slave, for example. I have used them & am quite satisfied with their work.

Colin
 
Steve said:
One question that intrigues me is whether or not the owners in the UK are having the same issues? OEM parts are more readily available, thanks to the Heritage program, and the MGOC over there has had several parts remanufactured by the original suppiers.
Click to expand...

First, we need to define 'OEM', an ambiguous and abstruse phrase. 'OEM's' are the industry's brand name auto manufacturers like GM, Jaguar, etc. OEM also applies to a multitude of licensed component manufacturers such as Bosch or Lucas. While these meet the industry definition of OEM, they are frequently called OEM Suppliers within the industry to prevent confusion with the automobile brand names. Now-a-days, when a company licenses products or components from another company and sells the products or components with the purchasing company's name or logo on them, the company that resells the product is called the OEM even though by the original definition of the teerm, it isn't.

So, since MG is no longer in business, the only OEM items that they manufactured had to be made while they were in business; anything else is aftermarket - even British Heritage is aftermarket by the strict definition of OEM. And Lucas is an OEM Supplier while they were supplying MG with products. Today, people call Lucas items that are still made for MG's to be resold through Moss or VB or some other supplier OEM....thus, Moss could be termed an OEM Supplier under today's looser definition of 'OEM' just as British Heritage is considered 'OEM'.

Steve said:
If this is indeed the case that means that the parts are available already, they just need to be paid for and shipped. THAT will be an expensive proposition, but might just be worth exploring.
Click to expand...
Moss gets lots of their stuff from Moss UK, the same place MGOC gets most of their stuff (& Moss UK gets some stuff from MGOC!).....Moss has some stuff made to their specifications all around the world & they have quality control people who check samples of items they have made......VB buys lots of their stuff from Moss...most everybody gets their stuff from the same vendors.....i.e., wiring harnesses regardless of who the supplier is all come from the same factory in the UK.

In some instances, there are different parts in the catalogs, Heritage or aftermarket, & throughout my many years of experience I've noted that most MG owners go for the cheaper product (& then bitch!)....only a few of us go for the more expensive items. So, for the majority of the common items, I'm certain the big suppliers know what price range the majority of people are willing to pay & how many of a particular item they can sell at that price & replace & still make a profit.

Bumpers are an example...most people want a good, cheap bumper....a few of us pay the extra to have ours rechromed....when enough people started wanting better bumpers, Moss invested the R&D dollars to get them & raised their prices accordingly.

Remember the Ford Maverick debacle: it was cheaper to pay for lawsuits than to redesign the gas tank problems.
 
Ford Maverick or Pinto? In either case, you're right about the "pay-it-away" rather than fix it properly mindset. Apparently cheaper on the face of it, but how much business was lost afterwards because of the media coverage....
 
actually guys, I find the parts suppliers and access to parts much easier.

Back in the 70's I raced an MGA... (I sold to a guy in Florida... he flew up and rented a uhaul to take it from home..from Quincy MA...anybody know where it is) and believe it or not went to a Triumph Spitfire due to better access to parts...

at that time the parts were hard to come by for the A, and in many cases could not even fit what they replaced...

today with overnight shipping, accessiblility to parts, and many of the parts still reasonable priced (see how much it cost to change your fuel pump on your Chevrolet) the MG proves quite economical.

BTW still have the Spitfire, on short haitus at the moment...
 
tony barnhill said:
Steve said:
One question that intrigues me is whether or not the owners in the UK are having the same issues? OEM parts are more readily available, thanks to the Heritage program, and the MGOC over there has had several parts remanufactured by the original suppiers.
Click to expand...

First, we need to define 'OEM', an ambiguous and abstruse phrase. 'OEM's' are the industry's brand name auto manufacturers like GM, Jaguar, etc. OEM also applies to a multitude of licensed component manufacturers such as Bosch or Lucas. While these meet the industry definition of OEM, they are frequently called OEM Suppliers within the industry to prevent confusion with the automobile brand names. Now-a-days, when a company licenses products or components from another company and sells the products or components with the purchasing company's name or logo on them, the company that resells the product is called the OEM even though by the original definition of the teerm, it isn't.

So, since MG is no longer in business, the only OEM items that they manufactured had to be made while they were in business; anything else is aftermarket - even British Heritage is aftermarket by the strict definition of OEM. And Lucas is an OEM Supplier while they were supplying MG with products. Today, people call Lucas items that are still made for MG's to be resold through Moss or VB or some other supplier OEM....thus, Moss could be termed an OEM Supplier under today's looser definition of 'OEM' just as British Heritage is considered 'OEM'.

Steve said:
If this is indeed the case that means that the parts are available already, they just need to be paid for and shipped. THAT will be an expensive proposition, but might just be worth exploring.
Click to expand...
Moss gets lots of their stuff from Moss UK, the same place MGOC gets most of their stuff (& Moss UK gets some stuff from MGOC!).....Moss has some stuff made to their specifications all around the world & they have quality control people who check samples of items they have made......VB buys lots of their stuff from Moss...most everybody gets their stuff from the same vendors.....i.e., wiring harnesses regardless of who the supplier is all come from the same factory in the UK.

In some instances, there are different parts in the catalogs, Heritage or aftermarket, & throughout my many years of experience I've noted that most MG owners go for the cheaper product (& then bitch!)....only a few of us go for the more expensive items. So, for the majority of the common items, I'm certain the big suppliers know what price range the majority of people are willing to pay & how many of a particular item they can sell at that price & replace & still make a profit.

Bumpers are an example...most people want a good, cheap bumper....a few of us pay the extra to have ours rechromed....when enough people started wanting better bumpers, Moss invested the R&D dollars to get them & raised their prices accordingly.

Remember the Ford Maverick debacle: it was cheaper to pay for lawsuits than to redesign the gas tank problems.
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I had said here:

"Most consumers will always go for the cheapest option, and so the supplier has to be able to compete on price. Sad, but true.

We can use the clout that this forum provides to bring pressure to bear on the companies to supply good quality parts regardless of price, but we would then be honour-bound to buy those parts. We can't leave them hanging with expensive inventory that no-one will buy. Would we be prepared to do that? Some of us will without a doubt, but would all of us? Human nature being what it is, I seriously doubt it."

I am in total agreement with you Tony, the few of us who would be happy to shell out for the quality parts are still outnumbered by those who always want to do it on the cheap. The suppliers then try to meet the demands of the majority.

Myself, I am a firm believer in the "do it once, do it right" philosophy.

Point taken with regard to the definition of OEM............ I always refer to the manufacturer of the original parts used on the cars as "OEM", although strictly by definition that is not correct.
 
Wasn't contradicting you, Steve - we agree on this one...I just see folks always talking about 'OEM' parts....if they are truely 'OEM', they're as old as our cars & have nevcer been out of the box!

When I buy for my personal cars, I always ask if there's a BH part or a Rover part I can get instead of the generic - & I pay the difference....most guys don't want to do that....so the suppliers meet the demands of the majority of their customers.

We're together there.

Oh, Moss monitors the BBS' to see what's happening so they read our comments.
 
rick_ingram said:
tony barnhill said:
Oh, Moss monitors the BBS' to see what's happening so they read our comments.
Click to expand...

Hi Kelvin!

:wink:
Click to expand...
& Britt!
 
I have a TR3, and today I can get just about any part for it. Twenty years ago, the supply was pretty scarce. Maybe I'm just happy to have the availability, or maybe it's just that the parts I'm replacing happen to be of decent quality. I've bought a ton of stuff from Moss and The Roadster Factory, and on only one occasion have I had to send a part back because it didn't work properly. Maybe I'm just lucky. Having said that, I will note however, that on a lot of the parts I receive, the quality of the original <span style="font-weight: bold">is</span> better then the replacement, and I would pay extra to have that "OE" type quality.

But, people are by nature bargain hunters. If there's a choice between a widget at X dollars and another at 2X dollars, guess which one is gonna sell. That's a hard nut to crack. If you only offer the high priced quality item, someone out there is gonna undercut you. So what do you do as a supplier?? And then, how bad is that repacement part?? Like I said earlier, most everything I've bought has been servicable.

As I see it, the ONLY thing we can do is just keep returning any products that don't measure up to what YOU EXPECT. My threshold of pain might be different then yours.

There's and old saying... quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten. Unfortunately, most people would rather brag about the bargain they just got, not the quality of the product.
 
LOL, as many parts as we use they should be a supporter.
 
martx-5 said:
But, people are by nature bargain hunters. If there's a choice between a widget at X dollars and another at 2X dollars, guess which one is gonna sell.
Click to expand...

If both suppliers claim "top quality, exact reproduction, finest detail to authenticity. Perfect for your show car -you won't lose points" etc. who would you chose not knowing any different?
 
This is why I search for stuff on the internet, at car shows and anywhere else I can think of. I would rather restore an original part than use a repro. I have shelves full of NOS genuine Jaguar parts for my XJS.I buy up stuff whenever I find it. I also check Ebay in England, although with the dollar tanking, not so much anymore. I bought take off bumpers, complete, from Canada that were stored after TWR conversions, for less than I would have paid for 1 part here in the US. I also buy parts cars. I realize that you have to have space for them, but by shopping carefully, I can re sell enough to get free parts. I have a few V12s stored away, and even occasionally sell one to a customer.I buy for Chrome, interior trim condition, and mechanical condition. I buy 1 or 2 a year. I am not wealty by any means, and by being "smarter" than the next guy is how I am able to keep the car all these years. I work on all sorts of British cars, and for some things, there is only repro. I am glad I can get those when I need them, but I still try to shop by quality not price.Still, look at the availability of parts for 40-50 year old cars that were made someplace else... The situation is much better than it could be. If you buy a part that you are not happy with, let the vendor know nicely. The only way anything will improve is with our feed back. Just my 2 cents.
 
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