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I can’t remove Wire wheels from new hubs - help

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fishyboy

Jedi Hopeful
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Hi all,
At the end of summer I put two new wire wheels on two new hubs on the rear of my BT7. My local garage (who have worked on the car for 20 years) rebuilt the two new front hubs (a bit beyond my skills) and fitted two off the old wire wheels (one was a unworn spare and the other showed no obvious signs of wear). When I picked the car up the mechanic said it had been hard work getting the the wheels onto the hubs (which didn’t sound too good to me). I am not too sure whether they used the spinners to push the wheels on or something else. The garage used "copperslip" on the hubs.

Now I can’t get the front wire wheels off the front hubs. The spinners weren’t on particularly tight when I got the car home, but I couldn’t pull the wheels off. I have tried hitting the tyre from behind while gently spinning the wheel. No movement. I then put the spinners on loosely and tried driving round the garden in a circle and still they would not loose their grip. I’ve thought about borrowing a puller but not sure how to get the arms through the spokes.

Has anyone got any advice to get the wheels off?

I’ve spoken to the garage and they are thinking if there is a different approach.

Phil
 
Phil, A lot of thoughts are going through my mind since no pictures seem to be available, nor if even possible for the most part, perhaps.

But my first curiosity is, what device or tool have you used so far, in attempting to remove these spanners?

Other things you mentioned have got me a bit nervous (just as you feel), such as the difficulty in putting the wheels on the hubs.

It "might" help a little if you can post a picture of the existing exterior condition, as a start.

Down the road, and that is assuming all else does fail with hopes of you "somehow" never being able to remove your spanners via normal means, then there is a solution I know on removing the affected spanners. But I rather wait on that for the moment and let others here offer their solutions first (Just letting you I have a solution in mind But is it the best one? I have to hold that thought for the moment).

Paul
 
How do you “rebuild” a front hub . It has splines on it which have to match the splined interior of the wheel . Once the splines are worn which you can tell by looking at the spline profile you toss them away and put new ones on with new wheels so they match .
 
It does sound as if you have a problem. My first thought is to wonder whether the wheels are correct for the hubs. Either that, or the hubs may be poor quality reproductions with incorrect dimensions.

Wheels often freeze onto hubs on all kinds of vehicles. What tool have you used when hitting the tires from the back side? My favorite tool for that is a 16 pound post maul, with a wide, flat face. The maul has enough mass to impart a decent blow, while not swinging hard enough to bend the rim or damage the tire. Don't overdo it; be gentle with it. Before doing any of that, make sure that the car is well supported with jack stands or other suitable supports to prevent it from falling.

A little heat also may help. Don't use a torch; a heat gun at most, so that the heat does not damage anything or cause a fire. Use caution, and then use the maul judiciously. If that doesn't work, spray a little penetrating oil into the hub and wheel interface and then try the maul again. For safety's sake, don't apply heat after applying penetrating oil.

If they hammered the wrong wheels and hubs together, you likely have a bigger problem. The shop may stand behind their work.
 
With the knock-off removed, put ice into the hub, with the thought of shrinking the metal. Heat the wheel hub and renew the ice as needed. This worked for me on wheels that were stuck on from lack of lubrication.
Good luck,
Bob
 
I agree with Healey nut. How do you rebuild a hub, you may want to question your garage about this and also ask them to help you remove the wheels as it appears they caused the problem. Otherwise I would go with the heat and cold approach and just keep. Working at it.
 
Hi all
Thanks for the replies.

By "rebuilding the hubs" i really meant integrating the hubs with the bearings, grease caps etc as I was told it was a more difficult that just bolting on the hubs as I did with the rears.

Both wheels that went on the front showed no signs of wear.

The hubs were new all round on front and rear.

Phil
 
It should be possible to find a puller that will fit. This picture is from a Healey with 72 spoke wheels too.
 

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Though, I'll add in my experience, any time a wheel is "hard" to put on, it's really hard to take off. Shame on the shop for pushing them on anyway.

For the hammer route, you really have to be under the car, so you can hit the back of the wheel squarely. On modern cars, I've used a long piece of wood and a sledgehammer (to tap the back of the wheel from the other side of the car), but I suspect with wire wheels, you start to really risk bending something at that point.
 
Did you or the shop order the replacement hubs? Having the shop involved in the solution is an important step; they need to correct any mistakes and are responsible for making the car safe for driving again.
 
Hi all
I ordered the hubs (from AH Spares) and bought the new wires from SC Parts (which went on the rear).

Shop is happy to take responsibility and we will both try to get them off next week.I suspect that they have been a bit "over enthusiastic" getting the wheels onto the new hubs.

In the first instance I think well go for heat and ice and a suitable puller. Failing that then up on the ramp and hit the wheel (timber between) from behind. Hopefully that will get them moving.

Odd that I had no problems putting the new wires on new hubs on the rears.

Phil
 
Have you tried spraying something like this inside the hub where the grease cap goes and then warming the wheel hub with a heat gun?

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://www.screwfix.com/p/arctic-products-crack-it-shock-release-spray-400ml/83415[/FONT]
 
Wheels and hubs tend to wear as pairs. In my near 50 years messing with wire wheels I've determined they should be replaced as pairs and never rotated like bolt on wheels are becuase the spline wear points won't match. Wheels and hubs should be a snug fit when both are new, not a force on but not loose. The fact that they had to force them on says to me that the wheel splines probably are a bit bent over or otherwise misalined in relation to the new hubs causing the difficult fit. Compounding things, the inner quarter inch or so of the wheel splines stick out past the hub splines and don't wear much if at all and when the load carrying parts wear and slowly bend over, there can be a mis-alinement within the wheel itself.

When hubs/wheels are new, the splines when viewed from the end resemble equilateral triangles with the tops squared off. So if you run a finger over them they feel dull. As time goes on they wear and bend away from the force on them so when you run a finger over them they can feel like a sharp point and looking at them they are bent more towards a right triangle, with then folding back on the rears since the hubs push the wheels to move the car forward and bend forward in the front to a lessor extent since the force is the brakes stopping the hub so the wheel pushes against it. The spines wear at different rates so putting different used/new wheels on new/used hubs causes the splines to now mismatch, unless both are new. So in the end these new and used components can lock together since the splines can now catch on each other. And if they don't, a used wheel can cause a new hub to wear faster than normal since the splines may not be pushing on each other across their whole length but are concentrated in smaller lines and depth.

This is all from years of observing, and using original used parts over the years and what I've determined when I've had issues. As far as removing it, you may be able to get a 3 or 4 arm puller hooked on the center hub rim and the center on the stub axle and remove it. But be aware there is a good chance that if not already done, it may cause damage to the new hubs you used.
 
Yeah, Bob, the picture ^^^ was to show an example puller - not how to safely apply heat!


That was a rear wheel on a very worn hub, which, I believe, became cross-threaded on the splines while driving, and then sat in a damp garage for 20 years. The picture shows a last-ditch effort before the Sawzall comes out; both the wheel and the hub are no longer with us. Hopefully fishyboy's removal is easier.
 
Bob_Spidell said:
That's a cutting torch. I'd be pretty careful with it.
Click to expand...

That'll get it off. Having grown up in Massachusetts when Healeys were used through the winter with lots of salt on the roads it was not uncommon for wires to be cut off with a torch if they hadn't been regularly serviced.
 
mikephillips said:
... In my near 50 years messing with wire wheels I've determined they should be replaced as pairs and never rotated like bolt on wheels are becuase the spline wear points won't match. ...
Click to expand...

For over twenty years I put 4-6K miles on my BJ8 (most on an annual long road trip). I always rotated them at 5K miles (annually) like any other radials and never had an issue (FWIW).

I remember hearing a while back--well, ten years or so ago--that there was a batch of ill-fitting splined hubs being sold. I eyed the two new front hubs I'd bought in preparation--they tend to wear faster than the rears due to braking-- suspiciously, but when I finally installed them a few years ago they fit fine (I bought them from British Wire Wheel, post-Bruce Erfer). I've never seen the hubs on the wheels themselves wear appreciably; maybe the hubs are made of softer metal (which theoretically would be good because the wire hubs would be harder to replace, not many shops repair wires, and those that do just cut the spokes out whether they're bad or not).
 
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