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How to Fire a Restorer?
- Thread starter Twosheds
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John - I can't afford a restorer, so if I'm disappointed in the work, I have to take it away from myself!
But if I were in a similar situation ... I'd present the guy with the list of what was expected, say "can you get this done by xxx date?", then come back for it on that date. If it's not done, then you've warned the guy already, and it's cut and dried that you'll pick it up.
Give the guy fair warning *before* the headaches hit. If you've got that agreed delivery date, then there's no other "best or easiest" way.
It would be a *lot* messier for someone who just dropped the car off many moons ago with no expected delivery date, and then just got tired of waiting.
Tom
But if I were in a similar situation ... I'd present the guy with the list of what was expected, say "can you get this done by xxx date?", then come back for it on that date. If it's not done, then you've warned the guy already, and it's cut and dried that you'll pick it up.
Give the guy fair warning *before* the headaches hit. If you've got that agreed delivery date, then there's no other "best or easiest" way.
It would be a *lot* messier for someone who just dropped the car off many moons ago with no expected delivery date, and then just got tired of waiting.
Tom
dklawson
Yoda
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I have not had to do this with a restorer but I have with an engine builder.
Honesty and politeness are your best approach. Regardless of what has transpired between you and the person, I suggest telling them face-to-face with your check book in hand that you feel you need to take the project back to work on yourself and pay him/her what you owe them. Pay them, thank them, apologize that this didn't work out (even if nothing was your fault) and collect your car and parts. Whatever you do, do not loose your composure or you may find that parts are suddenly missing, misplaced, or new dents appear in the bodywork.
Honesty and politeness are your best approach. Regardless of what has transpired between you and the person, I suggest telling them face-to-face with your check book in hand that you feel you need to take the project back to work on yourself and pay him/her what you owe them. Pay them, thank them, apologize that this didn't work out (even if nothing was your fault) and collect your car and parts. Whatever you do, do not loose your composure or you may find that parts are suddenly missing, misplaced, or new dents appear in the bodywork.
PeterK
Yoda
Offline
I brought a 4A chassis to some outfit in R.I. that "specialized in chassis TR repairs." After a couple of months at at their shop and face to face meeting as well as numerous email, telephone, and snail mails, they informed me that the chassis was ready ... and the bill was $1700 to install MY parts. The not to excede estimate we agreed on was $80O. On the way down there, we were excited thinking that they really listened and knew what I wanted. After all, got to be great if it was costing $1700. And the chassis IS the most important part of the car.
When we arrived, we found my chassis, that I delivered blasted down to bare metal, sitting outside in a pile of stuff covered by a piece of plastic. The plastic was covered water where is had sunk between the frame members.
When I uncovered the chassis, I immediately noticed that the chassis was now orange, covered in rust. Instead of cutting out the bad rusty parts and flush welding in new pieces as promised, these (idiots - sorry), simply tack welded pieces of new metal over the rust... everywhere. It was the worst looking POS that you could imagine. They did a nice job on the trailing arm chassis members though. But that's about it.
I was so emotionally taken back, I just went back to my truck and cried. They destroyed my frame and now expected me to pay for it. I left it with them without paying and was later threatened several times, both by phone and emails demanding payment. If I lived there (not 3-1/2 hours away) I would have gone the court route. But my only recourse was to not worry about the loss of parts (some NOS) and settle for a reasonable amount. We paid $500 to these jokers (the owner thinks he's one of the blues brothers NOT) and I countinued to be harrassed with threats of legal action even AFTER the payment.
I still have some of the not so nice, personally offensive emails. He actually attacked everyone who ever owned a British sports car with demeaning language.
So keep this in mind. I wouldn't hesitate to fire anyone for incompetence and have fired a mason with 8th grade chimney building skills (that owns a stove shop here.)
So my advice to you:
IT'S YOUR MONEY and you are entitled to spend it with whomever you wish. If they can't get the job done, it might actually be a load off of their mind too. Just keep in mind that there are a lot of jokers out there with big egos.
When we arrived, we found my chassis, that I delivered blasted down to bare metal, sitting outside in a pile of stuff covered by a piece of plastic. The plastic was covered water where is had sunk between the frame members.
When I uncovered the chassis, I immediately noticed that the chassis was now orange, covered in rust. Instead of cutting out the bad rusty parts and flush welding in new pieces as promised, these (idiots - sorry), simply tack welded pieces of new metal over the rust... everywhere. It was the worst looking POS that you could imagine. They did a nice job on the trailing arm chassis members though. But that's about it.
I was so emotionally taken back, I just went back to my truck and cried. They destroyed my frame and now expected me to pay for it. I left it with them without paying and was later threatened several times, both by phone and emails demanding payment. If I lived there (not 3-1/2 hours away) I would have gone the court route. But my only recourse was to not worry about the loss of parts (some NOS) and settle for a reasonable amount. We paid $500 to these jokers (the owner thinks he's one of the blues brothers NOT) and I countinued to be harrassed with threats of legal action even AFTER the payment.
I still have some of the not so nice, personally offensive emails. He actually attacked everyone who ever owned a British sports car with demeaning language.
So keep this in mind. I wouldn't hesitate to fire anyone for incompetence and have fired a mason with 8th grade chimney building skills (that owns a stove shop here.)
So my advice to you:
IT'S YOUR MONEY and you are entitled to spend it with whomever you wish. If they can't get the job done, it might actually be a load off of their mind too. Just keep in mind that there are a lot of jokers out there with big egos.
Gordon_Dedrick
Jedi Trainee
Offline
Don't know what type of restoration work was being done or at what stage it was, but I can tell you that most good bdywork people are not the least bit excited about finishing other peoples work as they are the ones that have to guarantee the finished product. The other issue is finalizing payment. If you have been paying the shop regularly on a per/hour basis for work completed you will be much less exposed than if it was one pre-agreed upon number for the total job. Good luck and please let us know how you end up!
Gordon
Gordon
V
vagt6
Guest
Guest
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Doug Lawson said it perfectly. Be polite and businesslike.
I had to take LBCs away from two restorers. One was a body shop that I hired to pull (straighten) a GT6 frame. He told me he'd do the job in two weeks, he had the car for 4 months and still hadn't fixed it. I got another vendor to do it.
It's very basic: the guy has your car so don't make him mad.
I had to take LBCs away from two restorers. One was a body shop that I hired to pull (straighten) a GT6 frame. He told me he'd do the job in two weeks, he had the car for 4 months and still hadn't fixed it. I got another vendor to do it.
It's very basic: the guy has your car so don't make him mad.
OP
Twosheds
Darth Vader
Offline
NutmegCT said:
Yup, Tom. It is.
Thanks for all the advice.
Just to be clear, it's not my car; however, I am somewhat responsible since I sort of put the owner and restorer together, although that was over a different matter.
I think the hard part might prove to be determining how much the guy is owed for the small amount of work he has done.
Gliderman8
Great Pumpkin
Offline
I took my transmission to a place that "specializes" in British cars. They promised to have the work done in 2-3 weeks. At the three week mark I called them to find out how things were progressing.... no return call.
I waited a couple of days and called again and left another message to please call me back. Days go by and still no response to my second call.
After a week with no response, I drove to this place, walked in and picked up my untouched transmission laying right where I left it and put it in my trunk. The owner told me he was "too busy to return my call" and that "I was on his list of calls to make" Unbelievable!!!!
I subsequently took it to another British car shop and they had it done in a couple of days.
Don't be sheepish about terminating your relationship with anyone YOU are paying.
I waited a couple of days and called again and left another message to please call me back. Days go by and still no response to my second call.
After a week with no response, I drove to this place, walked in and picked up my untouched transmission laying right where I left it and put it in my trunk. The owner told me he was "too busy to return my call" and that "I was on his list of calls to make" Unbelievable!!!!
I subsequently took it to another British car shop and they had it done in a couple of days.
Don't be sheepish about terminating your relationship with anyone YOU are paying.
JohnnyMead
Jedi Trainee
Offline
Polite, but firm and face to face is my advice as well.
I got in this situation years ago with a shop. They made a start on a body, but slowed down to nothing. I was too timid about staying on top of it and let a lot of time pass. I finally got my act together and arrived with my best diplomatic behavior and a trailer. I think we were both embarrassed by the situation and settled on friendly terms.
The best result was that I then found good one that has since helped me with 3 projects.
John
I got in this situation years ago with a shop. They made a start on a body, but slowed down to nothing. I was too timid about staying on top of it and let a lot of time pass. I finally got my act together and arrived with my best diplomatic behavior and a trailer. I think we were both embarrassed by the situation and settled on friendly terms.
The best result was that I then found good one that has since helped me with 3 projects.
John
myspitfire
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Thats a know brainer.Get advicee from a lawyer.Then tell him your coming to pickup the car & get another restorer.A n oral contract is just as binding as a written contract as long as you have a witness.
Ken
Ken
OP
Twosheds
Darth Vader
Offline
Well, the car owner called me last evening and asked me if I would like to go along to the restorer's shop when he pays him for the work, if any, he has done. And to tell him he has found another shop to finish the project. He said it would be fine if I didn't go. As confrontation-avoidant as I am (and that's <span style="font-style: italic">very</span> confrontation-avoidant), I said I would go. We didn't pick a date yet.
Polite yet firm. Got it. Thanks for the advice.
Don, we may use Chris' Restorations for some part of the work. I've already picked Joe's brain about the project because the running gear comes from a Sprite. And Joe knows Sprites!
Polite yet firm. Got it. Thanks for the advice.
Don, we may use Chris' Restorations for some part of the work. I've already picked Joe's brain about the project because the running gear comes from a Sprite. And Joe knows Sprites!
UmmYeahOk
Jedi Warrior
Offline
PeterK - what on earth would make them think that job was worth $1700? Were they sanding it down by hand which took days to do?
I had a shop pull my BMWs frame. I told them that I understood that it was totaled as it sat but that it has sentimental value. I asked how much it would cost. He said about $600. I asked how long do you think it'll take? A couple of months? He said a couple of weeks. After two weeks went by, I called. I figured it wouldn't be done, but he did say "couple" and buy calling he may make it a higher priorty. Every two weeks Id call, not done. He had my baby for 4 months. Eventually I called and he said it was done. I told him Id come layer that day to pick it up. I took off work early and had my mom take me. Since they closed in 30 minutes they had already parked all the cars inside and they couldn't reshuffle them to get mine out.
When I did get it back, they only charged me $200. But they may have only did that becauseby pulling it, the car came apart, and the neglected to tell me. So I was driving for 2 years daily with only the crossmember and strut towerbrace keeping the front corner on. Not exactly the shops fault. Rather than pull the frame someone else tried to fix the problem by tack welding a different car onto it. But still, would have been nice to know.
We used them again to fix some hail damage. We were going to paint it ourselves. It took 2 and a half months. About the same time it took a different shop to fully restore the front end of my mustang (bumper, fenders, hood, paint, frame pull). I wonder though, being a collision place it's possible that they put other cars first since those customers are without a car or renting
vagt6 said:Doug Lawson said it perfectly. Be polite and businesslike.
I had to take LBCs away from two restorers. One was a body shop that I hired to pull (straighten) a GT6 frame. He told me he'd do the job in two weeks, he had the car for 4 months and still hadn't fixed it. I got another vendor to do it.
It's very basic: the guy has your car so don't make him mad.
I had a shop pull my BMWs frame. I told them that I understood that it was totaled as it sat but that it has sentimental value. I asked how much it would cost. He said about $600. I asked how long do you think it'll take? A couple of months? He said a couple of weeks. After two weeks went by, I called. I figured it wouldn't be done, but he did say "couple" and buy calling he may make it a higher priorty. Every two weeks Id call, not done. He had my baby for 4 months. Eventually I called and he said it was done. I told him Id come layer that day to pick it up. I took off work early and had my mom take me. Since they closed in 30 minutes they had already parked all the cars inside and they couldn't reshuffle them to get mine out.
When I did get it back, they only charged me $200. But they may have only did that becauseby pulling it, the car came apart, and the neglected to tell me. So I was driving for 2 years daily with only the crossmember and strut towerbrace keeping the front corner on. Not exactly the shops fault. Rather than pull the frame someone else tried to fix the problem by tack welding a different car onto it. But still, would have been nice to know.
We used them again to fix some hail damage. We were going to paint it ourselves. It took 2 and a half months. About the same time it took a different shop to fully restore the front end of my mustang (bumper, fenders, hood, paint, frame pull). I wonder though, being a collision place it's possible that they put other cars first since those customers are without a car or renting
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