how redneck would I be....

[sqbsprite]

Trevor: look at : https://www.mcmaster.com/ search for "ball end"

Also "threaded tube ends"

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Thanks Steve, I've thought about constructing my own before posting the original question... then it occurred to me that I may be "recreating the wheel". I know winner's circle and the like sell read made versions, and that I could make my own... but the cost seems rather high. Jeff's suggestion sparked interest because it didn't involve the threaded tube rod ends. I'm looking for an inexpensive solution that works well. My attempt to think outside the box.

 

[jlaird]

Trevor you keep thinking like that we gona put you in the box. lol

 

[Luke_Healey]

I think the problem with the tractor version is that they are not machined to a close tollerance like the ball ends you'd get from McMaster Carr. In fact, I bet the ball flops around loose in the ends on purpose, so once they get rusty on the farm, you can still move them with your hand. I bet they'd knock around on a car just like a worn tie rod end.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Good point Luke. OK, I'm going to go back to my original plan of making some. However, this is going to be a street car (though not a daily driver), so... should a mount the top bolt using some sort of polyurethane bushing to take some of the vibration out? And... (I'm gonna need another thread) when I lower the car should those top links be shortened to maintain the pinion angle? Any have any thoughts/details on this?

 

[Glen_B]

I wonder if all the effort is worth it. The Heim joints will not locate the rear axle as do the rubber bushed radius arms and will make a panhard rod necessary. Considering comments from folks like Daniel Stapleton, is this really what you want for the rear axle?

Glen Byrns

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Yes, a panhard is in the mix. Is it what I want? I have no idea... I have never driven (for any length of time) a 1/4 elliptical car. I was just looking for a means to get a more rigid location of the rear axle... so I started looking at all the rubber bushings.

 

[GB1]

IMHE, the original style trailing arms (good bushes)with a panhard should be just fine.

Pat

 

[jlaird]

More ridged?

The 1/4 elipic springs make it like a rock for windup and side to side movement.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

How can that be? There is no lateral triangulation.

 

[jlaird]

The beauty of 1/4 elpitics. Just try to move that axle sideways. It will not go.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

I'm sure I can't, but what about the force the car encounters as to goes around a hard corner?

 

[jlaird]

Lightens up a bit on one side but not much. Pan bar would be ok for tuneing on an oval track but we go both ways.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

I'm not talking about body roll. I talking about the axle moving off its intended center line.

 

[jlaird]

No way, that is hard with a 1/4 elpitic. In fact I am not sure it is possible at all.

Sit on the floor and try to move it with your feet.

What we need is an expert to step in here Trevor but I have never heard of a pan bar on a BE.

 

[Glen_B]

I'm sure panhards have been used on BEs, but not by me personally. As for the ability to deflect the axle under driving conditions, it definitely happens.
There is a freeway overpass I take every day at speeds between 55 and 90, depending on the color scheme of the cars around me. It sweeps around about 110deg. The rear axle is "loaded up" with maximum deflection by the time I get about 2/3 around it. At that point there is a pavement imperfection that bounces me loose for half a heartbeat. At that instant, the deflection of the rear axle "unloads" briefly before the tires reconnect to the pavement. While its definitely a bit of a butt-pucker moment the first few times, I've gotten quite used to it. It's predictable and not at all an issue for me anymore. YMMV.
I found the behavior of the front end when it hits a bump at high speeds without an anti-sway bar to be truly terrifying. I'll never be without the front bar.
Glen Byrns

 

[GB1]

When I spoke with the guys at Speedwell Engineering about how to setup my rear suspension, the consensus was to remove a few leaves, shim the springs down and add a panhard bar. This stopped it from hopping, made the rear softer for more travel, lowered it and the panhard brought back just enough of the rigidy.

Really the nicest ride I have ever had in BE. But all of this is just IMHO and the advice Tom and his gang had given me. Attached is a pic for a guide.

Pat

 

[racingenglishcars]

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif
That's what we had on the old MkII racer, but with special springs insted.

The Panhard bar is for de-stressing the spring mounts as much as it is for location of the axle. Technically the springs have a hard time deflecting horizontally, but then they want to twist insted. The bar puts a large portion of that force into the chassis mounting point.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

Wow, Pat. Looks like you removed more than just a few leaves.

I plan on tinkering with the setup quite a bit to get the balance I want. I learned from my Midget, that you just can't set your car up like someone else's and expect the handling/performance that you want. There are too many variables and personal preferences to consider.

Thanks to all of you that have taken the time to share your thoughts and photos. This forum(and its members) is a great asset.

 

[GB1]

Trevor

The car in the picture is setup for the track. For the street, I have 1/4 shimmed, a wedge on the passenger side (so that it is a lil lower then the drivers, balances out when I am in it). Three leaves are removed, I can't recall which ones and the panhard. See attached for outside pic.

I agree with you Trevor, this took me about eight times in and out to get to where I was happy.

Pat