-
Hi Guest!
You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
There are some perks with a member upgrade!**Upgrade Now**
(PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Hey - did you know if you click on the title of a thread it will take you to the first unread post since you last visited that thread?
but were afraid to ask: 
STOP!! Never post your email address in open forums. Bots can "harvest" your email! If you must share your email use a Private Message or use the 
smilie in place of the real @
Pretty Please - add it to our Events forum(s) and add to the calendar! >> 
How much oil should an engine use on break in
- Thread starter Norton47
- Start date
Share this page
TheSearcherMan
Jedi Trainee
Offline
Well, if you have the external oil rocker feed line, you mite take it off and see what happens........... I hope you used AE piston rings........
tomshobby
Yoda
Offline
Is it burning it or leaking it. Mine used very little before the first oil change. But that does not mean they all should be that way. I drove mine fairly easy for a couple hundred miles and have not been since then. I like to keep the head of my throttle stop bolt shiny. But I have noticed that with about 10.000 miles since the rebuild that the new tires are showing considerable wear, especially the rears. I have developed a small leak and get a couple drips on the floor but don't seem to burn any.
Funny, we were in a car show yesterday and parked with the Healey's and MG's. We had been watching some cars leaving and a few were a little spirited. When we pulled out onto the road Shirley looked over and said, "Show em"!
Funny, we were in a car show yesterday and parked with the Healey's and MG's. We had been watching some cars leaving and a few were a little spirited. When we pulled out onto the road Shirley looked over and said, "Show em"!
Don Elliott
Obi Wan
Offline
When I re-built the engine in my 1958 TR3A in 1990, I got 600 to a quart of oil after the rebuild. So I switched from 10W30 to 20W50 Castrol. I still got 600 miles to a quart of oil. 94,000 miles later, I was still using a quart of 20W50 oil every 600 miles. So I decided to rebuild it again. An expert in an engine rebuild shop looks at the pieces after I dismantled it and immediately told me I had been running too rich. He could tell that by looking at the pieces plus the rings.
So I put it back together with new rings after he honed the liner bores for me and since then, I have set the carbs correctly - much leaner. On the first run after the recent rebuild, I needed a quart of Castrol 10W30 after 3600 miles, but didn't add any because it was due for an oil change. On this run, I've done 2500 miles and not needed to add any oil (still 10W30 Castrol).
Perhaps you have the carbs set too rich and the excess gas in the cylinders is washing the oil off the cylinder bores and down into the oil pan.
So I put it back together with new rings after he honed the liner bores for me and since then, I have set the carbs correctly - much leaner. On the first run after the recent rebuild, I needed a quart of Castrol 10W30 after 3600 miles, but didn't add any because it was due for an oil change. On this run, I've done 2500 miles and not needed to add any oil (still 10W30 Castrol).
Perhaps you have the carbs set too rich and the excess gas in the cylinders is washing the oil off the cylinder bores and down into the oil pan.
I have had the opposite problem, mine is to lean.
I did a leak down test with my homemade unit. It seemed to give uniform results across all cylinders. applied 80 psi and leak down was 72 psi.
Warm compression test was 115, 117, 110, 115, 117, 120 PSI and with oil 125, 124, 125, 127, 125, 125 psi. Does this seem low for a stock engine? it's a 1974 almost 1975.
I will call my machinist tomorrow and see what he says.
I drove it very easy, not over 3k rpm for the first 600 miles, then changed the oil to the Rotella 10W40 and started working it up. I did not do 5k till it had around 1400 miles on the rebuild.
I also used the ZDDP in the first two oil changes.
It now ready for the third.
I did a leak down test with my homemade unit. It seemed to give uniform results across all cylinders. applied 80 psi and leak down was 72 psi.
Warm compression test was 115, 117, 110, 115, 117, 120 PSI and with oil 125, 124, 125, 127, 125, 125 psi. Does this seem low for a stock engine? it's a 1974 almost 1975.
I will call my machinist tomorrow and see what he says.
I drove it very easy, not over 3k rpm for the first 600 miles, then changed the oil to the Rotella 10W40 and started working it up. I did not do 5k till it had around 1400 miles on the rebuild.
I also used the ZDDP in the first two oil changes.
It now ready for the third.
Well my machinist says a quart every 2000 miles would be acceptable. He asked if I see any in the exhaust, I said no.
He also said the leak down checks compression rings but do nothing about checking the oil ring. Makes sense.
I guess I will change the oil and see what I get with the rocker oil feed removed.
He also said the leak down checks compression rings but do nothing about checking the oil ring. Makes sense.
I guess I will change the oil and see what I get with the rocker oil feed removed.
Got_All_4
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Spin on oil filter adapters have been a problem over the years. If you have one you may want to check the o-ring. I had one that leaked around the O ring because the machining on the base was not deep enough to let the O-ring seat 100%. I machined it deeper and no problems now.
Also using a little oil through the rings is a good thing. Keeps your rings and cylinder walls lubricated. All the high end car manufactures desing this into their motors. My Volvos have all used 1 quart in 1500 miles or so. Many of those go 1 million miles. Think about a ring that is too tight scrapes all the oil from the cylinder walls and the pistons next trip up the cylinder has no lubrication. Premature ware and engine failure is soon to come.
600 miles is a little too much. The rings will ware in or seat them selves over time. Seems to me it takes about 5k to do this. Maybe give it some more miles and use a straight weight oil.
Also using a little oil through the rings is a good thing. Keeps your rings and cylinder walls lubricated. All the high end car manufactures desing this into their motors. My Volvos have all used 1 quart in 1500 miles or so. Many of those go 1 million miles. Think about a ring that is too tight scrapes all the oil from the cylinder walls and the pistons next trip up the cylinder has no lubrication. Premature ware and engine failure is soon to come.
600 miles is a little too much. The rings will ware in or seat them selves over time. Seems to me it takes about 5k to do this. Maybe give it some more miles and use a straight weight oil.
Got_All_4
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Another thing is who put the motor together? The oil ring gap (the bottom ring) is to be 90 degrees from the ends of the wrist pin holes. Oil will get past the ring through the gap and work it's way past the top 2 rings and into the combustion chamber. Each rings gap should be about 180 degrees from the other. Actually a little less then 180 on the middle ring, then a little more the 180 degrees on the compression ring. You don't want the gaps directly above the other even though there is a ring separating them. If not this will consume much more oil then normal. But you should see it in the exhaust.
I did lawn mower repairs and people would bring in engines that smoked terribly. They put new rings in them selves and some stacked the gapes on top of each others. These were excellent oil pumpers.
I did lawn mower repairs and people would bring in engines that smoked terribly. They put new rings in them selves and some stacked the gapes on top of each others. These were excellent oil pumpers.
TR3ATR250
I had a recommended machine shop do the machine work and assemble the block, and head and I put those major assemblies together.
My machinist said the same thing, new car's are actually using more oil than they used to. I can understand using some and mine may be better than I thought. I have never had a car that is quite so sensitive to how it is parked to get consistent oil level readings. Doesn't take much to change it 1/4 qt.
We will run it some more and monitor it.
I had a recommended machine shop do the machine work and assemble the block, and head and I put those major assemblies together.
My machinist said the same thing, new car's are actually using more oil than they used to. I can understand using some and mine may be better than I thought. I have never had a car that is quite so sensitive to how it is parked to get consistent oil level readings. Doesn't take much to change it 1/4 qt.
We will run it some more and monitor it.
poolboy
Yoda
Online
A while back, some dirt track racers let me use their shop to rebuild an engine. That was pretty much their theory, too.TR3ATR250 said:
Something like, if was using oil, things were getting lubricated.
I was looking at your compession #'s. The rings may not have seated yet. At 98k, my 74 had dry compression from 142 to 148. No smoke, but sometimes I get that smell. Pretty sure the carbs are evacuating the oil vapors under the valve cover in my case.
R
RonMacPherson
Guest
Guest
Offline
Norton, query on your breakin. Did you do anything with the camshaft/lifters? Replace any? If so did you do the 10-15 minute fast idle, then drain, retorque and refill oil>
During your break in mileage did you keep your speed(engine speed primarily) varying for the first 300 or so miles, to help seat the rings in?
Have you tried GM top end cleaner to see if the rings are not seating?
Acura in their first year of the new generation v-6 for the Legend in 97 or so, had oil control problems with rings. We had to fill the engine with top end cleaner, siphon it in the intake, until the bottle was empty. Let set overnight and start it up. Drive it around until the smoke burnt off and do a compression test again. If compression increased rings were replaced....
During your break in mileage did you keep your speed(engine speed primarily) varying for the first 300 or so miles, to help seat the rings in?
Have you tried GM top end cleaner to see if the rings are not seating?
Acura in their first year of the new generation v-6 for the Legend in 97 or so, had oil control problems with rings. We had to fill the engine with top end cleaner, siphon it in the intake, until the bottle was empty. Let set overnight and start it up. Drive it around until the smoke burnt off and do a compression test again. If compression increased rings were replaced....
TheSearcherMan
Jedi Trainee
Offline
I have had several vehicles that didn't use any oil. Some with very high milege. Huh, guess the rings were running dry, and they weren't designed right. I'll make a note.
G
Guest
Guest
Guest
Offline
You added ZDDP to Rotella? Why? It already has all the Zinc you need. That's why it's approved for Diesels. Diesels require WAY more ZDDP than a gas motor. I think you have TOO slick an oil for the rings to seat! Did you set the gaps properly in clock position? Try running only 10W30 oil with no Zinc for 500 or so miles to give the rings an opportunity to seat.
Ron
yes I had the cam reground and all new lifters. I did the 20 minute run at 2000 rpm, and with the head hot re-torqued it.
I did very the speed the first 300 miles and kept the rpms below 3k.
I don't know about GM Top end cleaner.
I added ZDDP cause there was a previous post that claims I believe that the Rottela Oil had lowered or dropped the ZDDP.
I haven't had time to search for this post, I believe it was in one of the last oil discussions. Valvoline VR1 Racing oil had recently also dropped ZDDP I understand.
Still all in all, it sounds reasonable to put in a regular oil and see if I can get them to seat.
I am also having an issue with lean carbs. That got me looking at the vacuum. In troublshooting that issue I found this web site.My vacuum reading are just like the one for poor rings.
I will continue that discussion on the lean carb post, but it is interesting to note that the vacuum indications for weak rings is so similar to a possible intake leak.
Heres the link https://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/Summer2003/VacuumLeaks.htm
yes I had the cam reground and all new lifters. I did the 20 minute run at 2000 rpm, and with the head hot re-torqued it.
I did very the speed the first 300 miles and kept the rpms below 3k.
I don't know about GM Top end cleaner.
I added ZDDP cause there was a previous post that claims I believe that the Rottela Oil had lowered or dropped the ZDDP.
I haven't had time to search for this post, I believe it was in one of the last oil discussions. Valvoline VR1 Racing oil had recently also dropped ZDDP I understand.
Still all in all, it sounds reasonable to put in a regular oil and see if I can get them to seat.
I am also having an issue with lean carbs. That got me looking at the vacuum. In troublshooting that issue I found this web site.My vacuum reading are just like the one for poor rings.
I will continue that discussion on the lean carb post, but it is interesting to note that the vacuum indications for weak rings is so similar to a possible intake leak.
Heres the link https://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/Summer2003/VacuumLeaks.htm
Paul
You are right.
I also found this In an e-mail from Shell on that very question:
"Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 with Triple Protection Technology, our API CJ-4/SM specification product, typically contains about 1200 ppm zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorous as manufactured."
From:
https://www.shellusserver.com/ubbthreads/...page=1#Post4095
FWIW, looks like I need to change the oil.
You are right.
I also found this In an e-mail from Shell on that very question:
"Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 with Triple Protection Technology, our API CJ-4/SM specification product, typically contains about 1200 ppm zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorous as manufactured."
From:
https://www.shellusserver.com/ubbthreads/...page=1#Post4095
FWIW, looks like I need to change the oil.