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How Hard Is Racing On A Car?

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So much pace car action you call clean race? Interesting.

I've done about 16-20 races and some more practice sessions and pace car came out only once...And we have very seldom contact between cars.

As you can imagine...I'm not a fan of hard racing...that's why I don't like touring car races.
 
MadMarx said:
To add to my comment:
This is an example of racing I won't like to be in.....too hard driving. As a prof. racer told me....racing takes place between the two white lines.....the part outside the lines is reserved for the gardening tractor....

https://www.trackdaymedia.com/cruises/runoffs%2005%20eprod%20erik%20m.wmv
Click to expand...

Well, that's the SCCA runoffs, you run all year long to just qualify to get to that race, and who ever wins that one race is the national champion, probably the most unique road racing championship in the world and one of the hardest to earn. I driven in 6 SCCA runoffs in three different classes, when it comes to amatuer road racing, these guys are the best of the best, when you drive that fast, stuff can happen. You 100% right if you don't want to let it all hang out and driver your arse off, this is not the place to be. I've ran in over 100 SCCA races, only had a few minor fender benders, won a SE championship, and I'll say this, I rather be on the track with SCCA national drivers than just about anybody. SCCA national racing is serious stuff, not for the weak of heart, but most wrecks are not caused by two fast drivers, most wrecks are caused by squirrelly slow drivers when fast driver approach, so I rather race with fast guys over slow guys anyday. I'm getting ready to build a vintage car, but I'll tell you this right now, if I get out there and it nothing but a big ole slug parade, I'll be back in SCCA. The race you linked to, I was there and saw it first hand, it is not the norm.
 
Hap Waldrop said:
SCCA national racing is serious stuff, not for the weak of heart, but most wrecks are not caused by two fast drivers, most wrecks are caused by squirrelly slow drivers when fast driver approach, so I rather race with fast guys over slow guys anyday.
Click to expand...

From my limited track experience, to me, squirrely drivers mean unpredictable drivers. Drivers that unexpectedly move off the racing line for faster traffic 'to be nice' and get out of the way because they misjudge just how fast the faster traffic really is. Instead they usually end up in the way. The best advice I ever heard at an open track day was that when being approached by faster drivers, stay on your line and do not make sudden/twitchy movements. It was the responsibility of the passer to pass safely. Also translates to being waved by. The slower drivers tells you where he expects you to pass.

Does that sound about right?
 
Steve_S said:
That isn't a car, that's a body tub on wheels! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
Click to expand...

Think of it as a starter kit. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
My very 1st licensed race as a regional SCCA racer....

I hit Joel Lipperini at turn 13 Nelson Ledges.
(as he was lapping me)
I moved out of his way....So I thought.
(He was driver's left when I put me LEFT arm up.....He hit me on the RIGH about 1/10 of a second later....WTH???)

My advice is (Like said above)
DON'T EVER CHANGE YOUR LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just so happens, he was a good friend of the guy I bought my car off of.

I APOLOGIZED profusely and his response was.....

"Buy me a beer".....(After I put a rather large dent in his car)

(I S**t you not)







The rule is DON'T EVER BE NICE TO ANYONE WHEN YOU'RE RACING SCCA!!!

(They aren't used to it)
 
Hey Hap,

The Porsche driver Eric is doing very well I was more confused by the other cars how often they leave the tracklane and pushing others.

But I agree with you...I don't like to parade on a track.

Cheers
Chris (who take car of his car first and winning is 2nd)
 
Shawn, that's exactly what I teach students when I instruct a SCCA drivers school. I had a student who I could not get this thru his head, I threaten to take him off the track a day early in a three day super school at Roebling Road, he straighten up his act for the rest of the scholl and passed. Later as he went to his first races, he resorted back to his old tactics and was blag flagged at this first two races and after his thrid race they took his novice book and that was it for him. This guy was just scared to death in a race car and could not multi task while in the cockpit, he once told me during a session he did not shift gears after he reached 4th gear for the entire session, because there was too much to do to comcentrate on to be shifting. Every once in awhile you get a guy who is scared like this, I always tell people there is no shame is staing this is not for you and throwing in the towell. Another little drill I do to students is ask them if they like to double check the side mirrors in a street car before making a lane shift, most respond yes, it seems like the right answer, I have to admit this is a trick question on my part. I tell them if they can't make quick decisions and trust their judgment then racing might not be for them.
I always tell student that they need to make all things you do in the cockpit natural to them, doing them with no more thought than if they were scratching their nose.
 
Hap, we occasionally have someone drop out of school when they realize that they are out of their element. I have more respect for these people than I do for the other kind, that just try to force themselves to finish with no regard for others.
Jeff
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]....racing takes place between the two white lines.....[/QUOTE]

Max: If you really think that's true, take a look at Jeff's avatar! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif

On students: I had a time trial guys last year in a 924 that became paralyzed when he went on track. But he knew it wasn't for him and he pulled in and sat out the rest of the day. A tough decision, but I respected it.

We also get the guys in the fast V8 cars that go like a banshee on the straights and crawl through the turns like a snail. One guy in a Corvette, did the entire Pocono North in the middle of the track, because he "didn't want to get too close to the edge". He was still faster than some of the small bore cars, but only due to horsepower and NOT skill.

I think *everyone* should start racing in an underpowered small bore 4 cylinder car so they can learn about conservation of momentum. Horsepower is just a "crutch" for the unskilled. For those of us with under 80 HP, the brakes are our worst enemy!
 
Hap Waldrop said:
,..... when I instruct a SCCA drivers school.
Click to expand...

As you're a instructor....I'm fiddling around with hair pins.

When I watch other racers of our group they enter from outside as you usually would do.

If I watch professionals, they enter from inside and corner tight.

I tried both....I prefer entering from the inside but I am not sure if it is faster. What I can see is that I can brake later on the inside and be more early on the throttle again but the cornering speed is lower.

What would you do?

Cheers
Chris
 
Max:

The "classic" apex setup can be seen here:

https://www.rmcbmwcca.org/DrivingSchool/Instructors/ClassroomAids/BasicTurn.jpg

But it does not always work if there is traffic and you are tying to pass someone (or hold someone off). And keep in mind that cars behave differently: front-wheel drive cars tend to take a later apex (it's fun to sneak inside Minis and Hondas).

There is a lot of good info on this page about driving:

https://www.rmcbmwcca.org/DrivingSchool/Instructors/Instructors.htm
 
I would describe my line as a double apex line.
First early apex with late late braking then a sharper turn and with full throttle to the 2nd apex.
From my point of view fast in....slow mid part...fast out...

Found it at Skip Barbers book... and saw it in prof. touring car races.
 
Well it hard to help you with the corner, not knowing it, but I'll take a stab at it. If by a hiarpin you mean a slow tight corner, well this may sound indiffernet, but get through it best way you and your car can, if it's inside so be it, out side so be it, always concentrate on good exit speed, it always better to come out with more speed than dive bomb into a corner. All bets are off in a duel, do whatever it takes without blocking to keep your opponent behind you.

Nial, the worse drivers I know alot of times are guys who start out in big high horpower cars, for the reasons you stated. For me staright speed is not nearly as fun as corner speed, I just not sensative enough to feel the differnece between 125mph and 150mph on straight, but hauling butt through the corner in a Midget, as you know, there is nothing like for the money /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Hallelujah....

Hp is a crutch.....

Wascally Wabbits....DIE-Die-die!

I'm sorry....It's the Guinness talking /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
WhatsThatNoise said:
Hallelujah....

Hp is a crutch.....

Wascally Wabbits....DIE-Die-die!

I'm sorry....It's the Guinness talking /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Click to expand...

The Guinness doesn't lie. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
Marx, in the first video your line defintely let you carry more speed thru the corner and on exit, but don't give up on the inside line, you could use that one for passing or defending your position. That MGB GT driver was a bit squirrely, glad to see you got by him without incident.
 
The MGB GT action was planned. I supposed him to shut the door and wanted to scare him a little with squeeking wheels ;-)

If he would have let the door open I could have slip through.

I liked the situation and his hectic waving after that corner to let me pass...

The lines aren't mine invention they are taken from modern racing series but what I can say is that they are easy to drive with.
 
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