hmmm - is that car legally yours?

[NutmegCT]

We all love these older cars, British - or "other" nationalities. Sometimes the older the better.

You go see a car that appeals to you. It's about 40 years old.

Seller says there's no title, as your state doesn't issue titles on cars over 35 years old. He only has a bill of sale when he purchased it from the previous owner.

So you pay your money, seller gives you a signed bill of sale, and you bring it home.

You go to DMV to register it and get plates ... the clerk types in the "non-standard" VIN (has fewer digits than they do nowadays), and says:

"There's a lien on this car for $1900. Are you going to pay it first?"

* * * * *

So how do we find out about these non-title cars before bad news happens? Do you take the VIN of every potential purchase to your local DMV, wait in line for six hours, and hope for the best?

Do we really check all the VIN's of these cars before we buy them?

I never even thought about this until recently, when I realized I don't have title to my own 1959 car - only a BOS. I don't have any liens - but if someone wanted to buy my car, it's only my word it's "clean".

So what do you guys do to prevent this? Or is this really something that never happens?

Thanks.
Tom

 

[tony barnhill]

Here's the opposite: My '71 Karmann Ghia has a TN title...if I decide to put it on the road in AL, they take my TN title away & all I have is my AL registration.....no other proof it belongs to me!

Here in AL if I'm registering an old car that was built before titles and the seller was an AL resident, they just give me a registration in my name. If the car is from out of state & was bought with a BOS from a person in a state where that vehicle has no title, all they do is check to see that the VIN on the car matches the VIN on my BOS......they never run a check beyond that!

 

[AngliaGT]

I had a neighbor moving out.Had a '72 Chevy Nova.
"Take it- it's your's".I went to the dmv to see if there
were liens/fines on this car.I was told that "That's
confidential - we can't tell you that".
So how are you to know if there are back fees/stolen-
vehicle,etc.,concerning a vehicle?
Man, it's hard being an honest person!

- Doug

 

[terriphill]

https://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/california.stolen.vw/index.html

Do you really think the guy who bought this and put the $$$ into renovating it would have done so if he had known? But, there's no way to find out until you try to title it.

In Arkansas, you cannot switch titles unless you have proof of insurance. And you cannot run a carfax report if it's that old either. However, we do not insure our cars until they can be driven (I mean really why pay insurance if the car is going to be in parts in your garage for several years?) So, DMV won't tell you if the title is legit unless you transfer it, insurance won't insure a car that doesn't run and if you buy it, spend the money to get it running and then insure and title it only to find out it was stolen twenty or thirty years ago....I mean c'mon....how do you know?

 

[NutmegCT]

Sounds like a few other folks have worried about this too. Maybe we've all just been lucky so far?

In Terri's catch-22 situation, you almost think you need title insurance like on a house ... but if the car's old enough to be title-less, even that is impossible.

So I wonder how many of us actually check for liens *before* we buy an older car.

Tom

 

[JPSmit]

I also suspect it actually happens very rarely. Kind of like ebay transactions - I've had a problem once but generally people are honest. In terms of liens, I suspect the likelihood of a lien diminishes rather than increases with age. That being said caveat emptor always applies.

 

[14dna]

You are right JP when you say caveat emptor.
However, in Ontario, the DMV will issue what is referred to as the seller's package for the cost of $20. It lists any liens and shows a list of all previous owners in the province. At least we can rest easy on local vehicles.

Dave

 

[NutmegCT]

Dave - can you get the "seller's package" from DMV if you're not the seller? Like, you're looking at a car and want to know its history, and if there are any liens, etc.

Thanks.
Tom

 

[abarth69]

Tom

A seller is responsible to give it to the purchaser to show the car is clean.

If the car has only had one owner then it shows little it’s when it has traded a number of times it gets interesting

Cheers
Mark

 

[14dna]

Yes Tom, If you are the purchaser and can show the vin, you can get the package. Ontario law says the seller is supposed to give it to the purchaser at the time of sale, for exactly the reason of bad deals.
As Mark says, when you get one that has had eight or ten owners, the pages can become interesting reading.

Dave

 

[vagt6]

In VA and many other states the seller must, by law/statute, disclose any lienholders on the vehicle for sale on the DMV documentation (Bill of Sale). This law, of course, protects the buyer.

So here in old Virginny if someone sells a car with a lien on it and it isn't disclosed to the buyer, the lienholder(s) can't compel the buyer to pay the lien. Or, at least the buyer has a strong legal defense if an undisclosed leinholder takes legal action.

Not perfect, buy good protection against criminals who try this stuff.