• Hi Guest! Being a Paying Supporter is NOT a requirement to participate at BCF. However, subscribing will help ensure we can continue to serve the LBC community for years to come. If you enjoy BCF and find our forum a useful resource...Please consider supporting us by **Upgrading**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this banner)
Tips
Tips

Help with 60 Bugeye - major drivetrain issue...

mikeamondo

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Howdy folks, been a while... Otto is our 1960 Bugeye with a 1275 and 4 speed tranny. I did brakes all around and rear hub seals last year with help from many of you.

Today, I drove the car across town and he did fine, but I noticed the clutch becoming stiffer as I drove... like harder to push down than when I started. This has happened before, and it was no worse this time. After a few miles and the engine nice and warmed up, at a light, I noticed something off as I pulled out. Like the clutch slipped just for a split second... maybe. That's a guess... I don't know it actually slipped. At the next light, as I pulled out, it definitely slipped... engine reved up... there was clunking noise I didn't like and I couldn't get the driveline to engage much... it did catch and lurch enough to get into second. There was a Sheetz store right there and I was able to pull off into the parking lot and stop. Here's were it seems really weird. If I start the engine and put the car in first gear, and give it smidge of power, it seems to be passing the power to the wheels and the car tries to move forward... but it can't... like it's bound up in there. It acts like there are chocks in front of the wheels. Of course, I didn't give it much power.... and there is some minor noise that seems to come from the back. The sound is hard to describe, but it doesn't sound good. Metal on metal, kind of squeak, low clunk ... BUT.... if I shut the engine off, put the car in first gear.... I can push the car around freewheeling like it's in neutral.

What would be screwed up in a way that will bind the car up when the engine is running, but then let the car roll free while in gear with the engine off?

I haven't started any diagnosis yet... just had him hauled back to the garage. Wanted to see where you guys thought I should start.

Thanks in advance!
Mike
 

Jim_Gruber

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
Pressure plate broken perhaps. Don’t like freewheeling when engine is in gear. It doesn't Sound like a good thing. Good luck.
 

Bayless

Yoda
Silver
Country flag
Online
Sound from the back could suggest a broken axle. Also maybe the diff but I think those things are pretty stout.
 

Roger

Luke Skywalker
Bronze
Country flag
Offline
For most of your description it sounds like a clutch actuation problem, like fluid not returning to the master cylinder. Right now your clutch is almost fully disengaged.
 

JPSmit

Moderator
Staff member
Silver
Country flag
Offline
IIRC there are issues with with the 1275 and the clutch release lever bending - and the newer thrust bearing failing. I think the clue is on your first sentence RE: clutch. as I type, could maybe a spring as well
 
OP
M

mikeamondo

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Well... I did swap out the rear bearing and seals... maybe this ham handed novice messed the job up. Still.. can't see a broken axle both allowing the free wheeling engine off AND binding up under load with engine on. So... next step is some hands on diagnosis. Any advice on how to check to see which part gave up the ghost?

I've never messed with a clutch before... this will all be new for me.

Thanks!
 

twas_brillig

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Offline
I'm definitely not an expert in this particular area, but: can you get it home (tow; whatever). Jack up the rear with jackstands under the rear axles. Get a companion and try rotating the wheels from each side, with it in neutral. Heck, put it in gear and see what the wheels feel like. No real wisdom, but maybe learn something. Good fortune - I'd bet on a clutch issue. Doug
 
OP
M

mikeamondo

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
That's what I thinking as a starting point... make sure the differential is still full and I didn't run it dry... put the car on stands and see what they feel like in the air.

One thing I can't figure out. Is inspecting / repairing / changing the clutch an engine-out operation?

Thanks!
 

Jim_Gruber

Yoda
Country flag
Offline
But it’s not hard to do. There is a checklist available and ev3n a novice can get the engine and tranny out in a few hours. One can do it but better with at least two and another to fetch beer and provide moral support.
 
OP
M

mikeamondo

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Thanks for moral support.... I'm pretty sure I can handle the pull if needed. Gives me an excuse to pick up a used hoist, I suppose. Worried about the overall time to do the job as I have exactly negative 4 hours of extra time per week right now.

Here's a thought. If it turns out I need a new clutch or new clutch parts.... am I crazy for wanting to swap the whole thing for a Datsun 5 speed instead?

How much should one budget for a 5 speed conversion beyond the acquisition cost of the tranny? I can't find any pricing info on the kit at Gerards'Garage....
 

Bayless

Yoda
Silver
Country flag
Online
Gerard said he does not currently have any kits available and it may be a while before he does since he needs multiple orders to control the cost. The Rivergate kit starts at about $700 and there are a couple of options that might be interesting.
 

Rut

Obi Wan
Silver
Country flag
Offline

twas_brillig

Jedi Knight
Country flag
Offline
Keep life simple: finding the Datsun 5 speed may take time and that 40 year old transmission is not inexpensive. You'll need the Sprite clutch assembly with the Rivergate kit; Gerard uses the Datsun clutch. I used to be able to swap out the transmission in our Bugeye in maybe 8 hours, with help to remove and install the nose piece. I'm sure you could do it faster, but there's always going to be some surprises. And pick up a Haynes manual, or - better yet - a reprint of the original shop manaul plus the Haynes. You can always find stuff on-line etc., but I like hard copy that's been vetted. Doug
 
OP
M

mikeamondo

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Hey guys... thanks for the support and info! And thanks Rut for the info in the PM! Very helpful.

I finally got a chance to take a closer look today.... wanted to take the car out of the shed and try and move it around on the flat, but I couldn't rig up my come-alongs to get it back in... so I just worked in the shed. My main goal was to see if maybe.. just maybe.... it's a rear end problem. Put the ass end on stands and took out the filler plug.... looks like plenty of oil, so I didn't run it dry. As I turned the wheel while looking in the filler hole, I realized I had no idea what it's supposed to look like in there. So I made a video you all could see it too!

NOTE!!! At the beginning of the video, I say the car is in NEUTRAL... but I had that backwards... it's in GEAR in the first part. After moving the wheels that way, I walk up front and put it neutral and then repeat. You can watch the video, but here's also a quick description...

IN GEAR... I can turn the rear wheels, but it will kind of bind up as I'm turning them.. it gets to a point where it binds up and becomes hard to turn them. Looking in the filler plug, you can see the gears turning around. Also... as I turn the pass side wheel, the other side will turn a little, but not consistently... seems like they ought to be connected directly in there. THEN... and here it gets cool.... I turn the drivers side, car in gear, and the gears in the rear end don't move at all. They might more just a tiny fraction of an inch.. you can kind of see that in the video.. but the wheels turns freely and the gears don't move in the rear. Then... in Neutral.... the parts in the rear move with the wheel on the passenger side... on the drivers side, they do as well.. but then stop... so the connection from wheel to inside the differential may be suspect... shouldn't it be a direct connection there? Have a look at my hastily filmed video and see what you think!

Thanks!
Mike
 
D

Deleted member 8987

Guest
Guest
Offline
Binding slightly and opposite wheel turning can be absolutely normal if it still has drum brakes. Pull the wheels and drums, try it again JUST to eliminate slightly out-of-round drums.
Neutral, brakes not dragging, opposite wheel will easily turn opposite direction unless you have some kind of locker rear end.
Jam a block of wood under the opposite tyre, or remove the opposite wheel and jam a bar between two wheel studs and the ground, try it again.
 

Bayless

Yoda
Silver
Country flag
Online
Put it in gear so the gearbox can't turn. Turn either wheel and the opposite wheel should turn the exact same amount but in the opposite direction. As TOC said, a little binding would likely be the brakes, no concern. But the opposite wheel must turn the same amount and in the opposite direction. If this does not happen then you could have bad internals but much more likely a broken axle. If it does work as I described then get a helper to try holding the opposite wheel while you turn one. If he can keep it from turning then you still have one of those two problems. If he cannot hold it then you are probably good in the rear, axles and all.
 
OP
M

mikeamondo

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Thanks! I can tell you pretty much for certain that the with the car in gear, back wheels off the ground, turning the passenger side wheel, the opposite did NOT turn the exact same amount. It would start to turn a little but not in the same amount. When making the video, I noticed that the opposite wheel began to move a bit when I reached the spot of slight binding.... so prior to that it was not turning. It certainly was not matching the movement of the other side.

Am I too early to begin hoping for a broken axle rather than a clutch issue? I'm assuming that's much easier and cheaper?
 
OP
M

mikeamondo

Jedi Hopeful
Offline
Not to get ahead of myself before confirming the axel.... but I did go check on Moss and see about $275 for a new disc axle. Then I spotted this on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Austin-Hea...740831&hash=item26067cc897:g:h7gAAOSwDO9dEBIP
About $75 including shipping... seems way underpriced to me. There was also another set for 100... but way rustier than these. What dangers would lurk in using a used axel?

How do these break anyway? Is it likely stripped at the point it goes into diff, or do they normally snap somewhere along the shaft?
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
I Bugeye oil pan help Spridgets 3
I Bugeye gas line help Spridgets 4
I Bugeye fuel pump help Spridgets 2
P Inherited 59 Bugeye need help. Spridgets 26
drooartz Help me put together a plan for my Bugeye Spridgets 46
J Help me price my Bugeye? Spridgets 37
I Bugeye side curtain bracket help Spridgets 2
I Help on installing side curtains and rag top on Bugeye please Spridgets 4
drooartz Help me evaluate a Bugeye Spridgets 27
H Ignition Switch Bypass Help - '61 Bugeye Austin Healey 6
I Help removing bugeye bonnet please Spridgets 5
I bugeye bonnet welding help please Spridgets 11
I Help - can't get my bugeye started Spridgets 17
I Bugeye grounding strap help please Spridgets 6
I bugeye starter wire help Spridgets 19
I Bugeye won't start - help please Spridgets 22
I Bugeye heater help Spridgets 6
I Bugeye overheating - help please Spridgets 41
I Bugeye top and tonneau help please Spridgets 9
I Bugeye generator help Spridgets 45
I bugeye master cylinder adjustment help Spridgets 5
I Starter help for bugeye please Spridgets 9
I Bugeye hold down brackets not lining up -help Spridgets 13
I Bugeye decal placement help Spridgets 2
I Bugeye gasline route/safety help please Spridgets 10
60Bugeye Bugeye Dash Help Spridgets 23
I Bugeye ragtop frame strap help please. Spridgets 13
I Help with Bugeye door seals Spridgets 7
I Bugeye turn indicator light help please Spridgets 18
I Bugeye hardtop restoration help please Spridgets 2
I Bugeye hardtop storage help please Spridgets 9
I Bugeye door seal help please Spridgets 8
I bugeye wiring help please Spridgets 2
I Bugeye door allignment help please Spridgets 9
I Need bugeye wiper motor help please Spridgets 2
I Bugeye horn repair help Spridgets 7
I Bugeye horn brush help please Spridgets 8
I Bugeye 948 ignition timing help please Spridgets 8
I Bugeye hand brake help please Spridgets 8
I Bugeye leaking radiator fluid - help please Spridgets 11
I Bugeye ignition light still on- help please Spridgets 35
I Bugeye radiator drain tap help please Spridgets 4
I Bugeye electircal help please Spridgets 15
I Bugeye lighting/electrical help Spridgets 17
I Horn brush installment help for Bugeye please Spridgets 7
I Help with carb hook up for 948 Bugeye Spridgets 8
I Bugeye factory jack bag help Spridgets 1
I Bugeye heater cable almost repaired, but need help Spridgets 4
I Bugeye carpet installation help Spridgets 3
I Bugeye wiring harness pathway help Spridgets 4

Similar threads

Top