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Help! Oil and brakes don't mix

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sparkydave

sparkydave

Jedi Knight
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Help! A while back, I had trouble with gear oil coming out of the left end of the rear axle. It found its way past the paper gasket between the axle disk and the wheel hub, soaked the brakes, and finally made a nice pattern on the rear wheel. I cleaned it up the best I could back then, and between a squealing brake on the front, and the apparent inability to get oil out of the brake shoes, I decided to get new brakes all around. Here's the rub:

I'm STILL getting oil out of the left side! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif The wheel bearing seems to have a fair amount of oil in it, and there was yet another load of oil in between the disk and the wheel hub. So, a few questions. Why is this only coming out of the left side? Is there something I'm missing that's supposed to keep the oil out of the wheel bearing? The right side is dry, and just has wheel bearing grease in the bearing. Does this mean I now need to repack the left bearing with grease? Sorry for all the questions, but it seems this oil situation needs to get fixed before I can finish the brakes.
 
Oil seal? I had a similar situation with the right side and had to fit a new oil seal etc,.Also did the other side too.
I reckon if your doing the brakes check the bearings and seals at the same time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

Stuart.
 
Which oil seal are you referring to? The paper one that seals the hub, or the one behind the bearing? The bearing seal won't keep the oil from oozing past the paper gasket.

Correction: Discovered the big O-ring too, but it seems to be okay, albeit a little gunky. Looks like the gunk may have let the oil ooze past, but what keeps the bearing from getting saturated with oil?
 
Your wheel bearing has a bunch of slop(I bet). Replace the bearing and all the seals. Make sure and use a non-hardening gasket sealer too. I like brush on permatex aircraft sealer. There is some shearloading going on there and it will tear silicone. Some times the hub just flat wears out too. If there it too much slop after the rebuild look for a new or better hub. You might also cheack to see if the oil seal has not grooved the axle housing. If it has then you will need to install a speedy-sleeve. Make sure and tighten those #three phillups screws with a #three screwdrive and wack the screwdriver on the end with a hammer as you tighten them. You might also look at the axle flange(where it touches the bearing housing) and see if it is warped where the screws go through.(common) A nice flat bastard file will level it out.
 
Try using a straight edge on the axle flange to make sure it's flat. A warped flange is not unheard of, and will cause a leak.
I use a THIN smear of Hylomar on both sides of the paper gasket, replace the O ring any time I disturb it, and haven't had a leak there in years.
Jeff
 
Thanks much guys. I'll take a closer look and see if the axle flange is bent. Looks like I'll be taking the world apart a little further to see what the bearing tube looks like. The bearing seems to have some play in it; I can wiggle the hub just slightly. Oh well, thank goodness for Moss and VB :smile:.
 
One other thing to check that hasn't been mentioned
check the breather on the rear axle. If it is clogged
oil will be pushed out when it gets hot (pressure).
I had an oil leak that would not be solved until I checked
and found that the breather was blocked/stopped up. Cleaned
it and no more oil leak. Breather is on the passenger side of the rear axle on top near the pumpkin.
 
question: are there seals in the axle tubes just outside of the carrier that seal against the axle shaft just past the splines? Or does it lubricate all the way out to the wheel bearing at the axle shaft flange?
 
[ QUOTE ]
The right side is dry, and just has wheel bearing grease in the bearing. Does this mean I now need to repack the left bearing with grease?

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you sure there is grease on the right side? It is very unlikely that you have it but there is a way to install lip seals in the axle housing to keep the gear oil away from the wheel bearings and then pack the bearings with grease. It requires the competition axles that have a smooth shaft surface, and I have only seen it done on cars that are raced. As others have said, the stock configuration is a lip seal on the inboard side of the hub and an o-ring and paper gasket on the outboard side.
 
Dave, I'm late into this game but I had a similar experience. Finally I pulled the axle and removed the hub from the axle housing. You have to knock the bearing off but there is an oil seal behind it. That is where all my leakage was coming from.
 
To answer Chris's question, I'm pretty sure there's grease in the right side. The service manuals (Haynes and MG) say to pack the bearings with grease before assembly. Now I'm confused though, and JC touched on this. Is the oil supposed to stay in the differential and axle tube, or are the wheel bearings supposed to be lubricated by that too, with the hub at least partially filled with oil? If so, then the two sides are working very differently. The left side definitely unloaded a quantity of oil (about a tablespoon worth) when I slid the axle out, but the right side was dry when I looked at it last time. JC, I see there's a seal behind the bearing, but I don't think that's what's leaving oil in the brakes. It appears all the oil got past the O-ring and gasket, since the gasket was soaked with oil. I can see why the two would need to make a tight seal though; if there is supposed to be oil in the hub, then the spinning hub would be forcing the oil against them.
 
The oil is supposed to be on the bearings. It get there everytime you turn a corner. When done right the hub will not leak.
 
Dave, I replaced the paper gasket and o-ring a couple of times thinking there was no way it could be the seal. Finally in desperation, I dug deep enough to get to the seal and could see that the lip had tiny cracks in it from the age (I guess). The lip was hard enough to damage more when I pressed on it. Needless to say, I bought new seals and bearings (since I was in there) and replaced both sides. No leaks now...knock on wood.
JC
 
Thanks JC, I'll take a look at the inboard seal. Next silly question, what's the best way to get the big nut off? The local Sears stores are out of 1 7/8" sockets (why do they have all the others but that one??), but they appear to be 12 point. Since the nut appears to have rounded points, will a 12-point work? The wheel studs make it hard to get a crescent wrench or channel locks in there. Figured the socket would be a worthwhile investment since the crankshaft pulley nut also seems to be 1 7/8".
 
There is a paper gasket and O-ring (#35 and #37) that should be changed every time you disturb things (as Jeff has said).
I also use Hylomar to help hold back any oil that sloshes around.
There is also a seal (#36).
Checking the vent is a good idea....mine has a breather hose, but I haven't looked at it in a while.
My car has double-bearing hubs and things are a bit different, but I am always "doing battle" with gear oil that weeps onto the rear drums...especially on tight courses like Shenandoah or Lime Rock. I am hoping I can get a better result when I switch to rear discs (at some point).
I use a big 12 point socket on mine. I shouldn't be too tight. Be sure the locking tab on this nut is good when reassembling....or the wheel comes off!
Be sure to re-fill diff on level ground and don't overfill. I'm using Redline sythetic, which is supposed to leak easy...I'm holding back about 99% of it (in very tough conditions). I think the Hylomar sealer makes the biggest difference.


SPM-027.gif
 
Thanks Nial, is Hylomar anything like Permatex #2? I haven't seen that stuff before. I managed to find a wrench for the nut. Girlfriend's dad had a set of big sockets. He just doesn't know he loaned them to me yet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
 
Hylomar is great stuff.

Only thing they have in common is they're both Permatex products. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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