Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pulley

[spiny]

Hello all,
I have a '72 1275cc Midget that has been stood in a garage for 15+ years.
This is possibly a daft question, but is it possible to turn the engine over using the crank pully? How do I get a spanner / socket on the poully - there is a large chassis crossmember in the way, is this only possible with the engine out ?

Ideally, I'd like to get the engine turning over by hand so I can work out what still works (starter etc), then hopefully I can get it running enough to make sure the gbox and rear axle are ok too, before buying a new recon engine.

bonus photo of the car:

cheers, Phil.

 

[jlaird]

Try this, in fact check out the entire site, good stuff here.

https://www.theautoist.com/awakening_a_sleeping_b.htm

 

[spiny]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

[ QUOTE ]
Try this, in fact check out the entire site, good stuff here.

https://www.theautoist.com/awakening_a_sleeping_b.htm

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks, thats a handy link, but I guess I should have added that the engine does not turn over on the starter at the moment, and the pully is seized (well seized enough that I can't turn it by hand)
before I got the car, the plugs had been removed and small amounts od diesel poured in the bores every now and then. I just need to get it 'freed off' so I can see if it will spin on the starter.

cheers, Phil.

 

[jlaird]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Ahh, different story. If it won't turn it will prob never run without a rebuild. The rings rust to the cylinders. Pull it and rebuild.

Auto zone or what ever will test your starter and generator etc etc FREE. Tough to screw up a rear end, new seals and gasket is about it usually, gear box you will have to open and check.

Take it all out. Gona be a fun project and a great learning experence for you.

 

[spiny]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

[ QUOTE ]
Ahh, different story. If it won't turn it will prob never run without a rebuild. The rings rust to the cylinders. Pull it and rebuild.

Auto zone or what ever will test your starter and generator etc etc FREE. Tough to screw up a rear end, new seals and gasket is about it usually, gear box you will have to open and check.

Take it all out. Gona be a fun project and a great learning experence for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

right-o /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif time to borrow a hoist then /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I expect I will be back for more advice soon enough ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cheers, Phil.

 

[jlaird]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Save all the parts. Make em nice and shinny before they go back in.

 

[Bugeye58]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Phil, First, let me welcome you to our humble forum.
I too, have a '72 Midget, identical to yours, including the colour.
Mine had been sitting for 13 years when I bought it, and the engine was well and truly locked up. I kept soaking the cylinders in diesel oil for a couple of days, and, using a wrench on the alternator nut while applying hand pressure to the belt, kept trying to move it. After a couple of days, I got slight movement, so I put more oil in it, and let it set a bit more. After three or four of these cycles, rocking the engine in both directions, I finally got it to spin over by hand, although tightly.
I then put lightweight motor oil in each cylinder, and let it soak for a day or two more. That got it to the point where it would turn over with the starter.
Unfortunately, the valves had rusted from being open to the atmosphere for so long, but a quick cleanup, grind, and a head gasket solved that problem. After changing the oil, cleaning the fuel system, and refreshing the battery, it started and ran fine. I didn't go any deeper in the engine than the cylinder head. That was 15,000 miles ago, and it now has 45 pounds of oil pressure at a hot idle, and 65-70 pounds at highway speeds.
Don't necessarily pull the engine just yet. With a bit of patience, you may save yourself a lot of work.
Incidentally, I have a '74 that just started the "soak' cycle. Let's hope I can be as lucky with it as I was with the '72.
Jeff

 

[Billm]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

And the easiest way to turn the engine over is to take out the plugs, put it in 4th gear and push the whole car some. If the engine isn't frozen it will at least move- but if it doesn't then try the oil trick mentioned above.
Bill

 

[Bugeye58]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Bill, after a prolonged period of setting, without the oil soak, just pushing it is an easy way to break a ring. I prefer the patience and oil method myself. Besides, when you're sitting down drinking a beer, while the oil is working on freeing up the rings, when someone asks what you are doing, you can honestly say "I'm working on the car." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Jeff

 

[spiny]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

[ QUOTE ]
Phil, First, let me welcome you to our humble forum.
I too, have a '72 Midget, identical to yours, including the colour.
Mine had been sitting for 13 years when I bought it, and the engine was well and truly locked up. I kept soaking the cylinders in diesel oil for a couple of days, and, using a wrench on the alternator nut while applying hand pressure to the belt, kept trying to move it. After a couple of days, I got slight movement, so I put more oil in it, and let it set a bit more. After three or four of these cycles, rocking the engine in both directions, I finally got it to spin over by hand, although tightly.
I then put lightweight motor oil in each cylinder, and let it soak for a day or two more. That got it to the point where it would turn over with the starter.
Unfortunately, the valves had rusted from being open to the atmosphere for so long, but a quick cleanup, grind, and a head gasket solved that problem. After changing the oil, cleaning the fuel system, and refreshing the battery, it started and ran fine. I didn't go any deeper in the engine than the cylinder head. That was 15,000 miles ago, and it now has 45 pounds of oil pressure at a hot idle, and 65-70 pounds at highway speeds.
Don't necessarily pull the engine just yet. With a bit of patience, you may save yourself a lot of work.
Incidentally, I have a '74 that just started the "soak' cycle. Let's hope I can be as lucky with it as I was with the '72.
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give it a go, it's not going anywhere at the moment .. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The previous owner (my dad, who gave me the car as he isn't well enough to fix it up himself) has been putting WD40 and diesel in the bores 'every now and then' so the plugs are freed.
However, earlier tonight (i'm in the UK) I did try just putting it in gear and pushing it, but all that acheived is a skid mark on my garage floor /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif so some patience is required I think.

my original question still stands though - is it possible to actually get a spanner on the pully nut with the engine in place? alas, the dynamo is 'somewhere safe' in my dads garage as it died about 20 years ago and he removed it to replace it, so I have no fan belt to tension.

pic of pully, with chassis crossmember unhelpfully in the way: (radiator removed, curiously it's the US radiator, the on its side one)

and an amusing one of the exhaust, perhaps a little beyond restoration ...

 

[ChrisS]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Welcome. You need to lift the engine to access the bolt on the crank pulley. If to remove the bolts that hold front mounts to the chassis you can block the mounts up enough with wood to get access. Good luck.

 

[spiny]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

[ QUOTE ]
Welcome. You need to lift the engine to access the bolt on the crank pulley. If to remove the bolts that hold front mounts to the chassis you can block the mounts up enough with wood to get access. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like a plan, I assume there is enough 'give' in the gbox mounts so I can just jack the front of the block ?

 

[ChrisS]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Sorry I missed that. To do it right there are two long 3/8" bolts that go up through the floor (accessible from under the car) and two short bolts that go through the tranny tunnel (one on each side, just forward of the shift boot, lift the carpet and insulation to access. Also, watch the clutch hose, fuel line, ground strap and exhaust pipe. Mine had enough slack except the fuel line. Just go slow and watch for binding.

 

[Bugeye58]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Phil, Chris is correct. I wasn't thinking about the dynamo being gone. You may also want to pull the shifter housing out of the way. I don't think interference will be a problem, but I've never tried this method.
Jeff

 

[Billm]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

If you tried to push it in 4th and all you got was a skid then I would HIGHLY recommend NOT trying to turn the crank bolt but to pour more oil in the plug holes and wait. Don't force it!!
Bill

 

[jlaird]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Like I said before the pic even, don't break anything just pull it all and go from there.

 

[Bugeye58]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Ah, but Jack me lad, where's the sport in that? Anyone can yank it and take it apart, but it takes finesse to trick it into submission!
Jeff

 

[jlaird]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Oh, it's a game, cool. Games are fun. Here is my best shot then.

Try PB Blaster in the cylinders about half an ounce in each one, add a bit each day, keep the plugs just in a few threads to keep all that nice juice in side.

Let stand for three days and give it a soft shove. Change the oil before trying to run it if indeed it frees up. I should think that this will do it if it is going to come loose at all without pulling it.

 

[spiny]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

cheers all, I can get a crate motor or a s/hand unit easily enough, but I would like to see if I can get this one at least turning over - I'm in no rush to get the car done and I won't need to block as an exchange unit, so if it turns out to be scrap, at least I will have hopefully learnt something along the way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

just one more quick question, is 'PB Blaster' the same sort of freeing agent as PlusGas ?

thanks, Phil.

 

[regularman]

Re: Hello, possible stupid question .... crank pu

Another way that works to free and engine pretty well (and its much easire to free up before tearing the engine down and driving the piton out with a hammer) it to cut the threads off a spark plug and then tap that threaded part out with an 1/8" pipe tap and screw a grease fitting into it. then buy a 99cent tube of grease from walmart and use your grease gun to move the piston. It applies plenty of pressure and it is spread out across the piston. I have used this many times, no hammering no straining.