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TR6 Heel & Toeing a TR6

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Webb Sledge

Webb Sledge

Jedi Warrior
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I've been practicing my heel and toeing in my 6, and though I can do a smooth one once in a while, the pedals are giving me trouble. For starters, the brake and the gas are placed to far apart for my foot to roll over without slipping off and get a clean stab at the gas. Anyone else have this problem (and a remedy)? I wear a size 11, so this isn't a problem of my feet being small. Also, my gas pedal goes in a good half inch to 3/4 of an inch before it actually does anything. Is this the way it's supposed to be, or should I adjust linkage?
 
Joe, the heel and toe are really something that practice will get you better and better, try to remember your position in the seat when you do it correctly, unless you have a four point belt to keep you in place your body moves around a lot and this puts you at different angles. As far as the linkage is concerned you need to make adjustments, one half inch to one quarter is about right. Years age we put a Spitfire gas pedal in with a cable and it was much smoother than all that linkage but not as easy as I make it sound. Keep on getting it. Wayne
 
Webb,
I couldn't heel-toe my TR-250 for the life of me. The pedals just weren't placed right for size 10.5 or 11 (depending on loafers or sneakers!)

My TR3 can be heel-toed, but it's still pretty hard due to pedal placement. TR7 is actually pretty easy with pedal placement, but the nature of the engine and gearing requires a deeper/stronger "blip," which isn't as slick.

My C5 Corvette is a dream to heal-toe...pedal placement is awesome, throttle is by-wire and very responsive.
 
I had thoughts of fabricating a new pedal for my spitfire so I could heal toe better but I learned how to deal with the stock set up. Heal-toeing and double de-clutching takes lots of practice but when you get it down you will know. It's kind of like a zen feeling /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif
 
Hello VHM,
it's applying the brake and twisting your foot so as to apply throttle at the same time, normally a blip of the throttle to change down a gear.

Alec
 
. . . and the reason it's a lost art is that it is no longer relevant, given synchronized gearboxes. All we really need now is to develop a feel for getting the revs up to where they are going to be when the clutch is re-engaged, and the downshift will be very smooth. Now as you begin to move the shifter toward that lower gear, the synchro cone begins its slide and locks the gear to the mainshaft, which allows the transition to be uneventful.
 
[ QUOTE ]
. . . and the reason it's a lost art is that it is no longer relevant

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but it is still relevant, particularly in racing, where you don't want the deceleration caused by an abrupt change in RPM induced by a downshift to upset the car. A 3-2 downshift without bringing the engine speed up can cause the back end to come around on you.
And please, do not ask why I am sure of this! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Jeff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif
 
Hello all,
the point really is that you are operating two controls simultaneously, i.e. brake and accelerator. I agree with Jeff, it is still relevant even on the road, as it is far smoother.

Alec
 
I cought myself trying to heal and toe downshift in a 26' International diesel U-Haul truck last week. When I realized what I was doing, and the futility of it, I almost had to pull over because I was laughing so hard. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I drive without the clutch alot in the spitfire, I imagine this is mostly because of my driving experiance with my old International (no synchros in the gearbox). I don't heel toe that often though, granted it would probably make driving a little easier when I need to slow down quickly. Only time I ever really heel toe is when I want to go fast, it does make down shifts alot quicker into corners.
 
I was taught how to do this soon after I learnt to drive in 1966. i thought as a teenager that it was "cool", and it helped with cars with no synchromesh on first, most English cars in those days.
I also did a blip when downshifting motorcycles, without releasing the clutch, it makes shifting much smoother.
Now its a habit, second nature, though many cars do require an awkward ankle angle I have never bothered alteering the pedals to make it easier. In a race car you usually widen the gas pedal so as to roll the foot to the right, and usually have a heel board to provide a reference point for your feet and to help make braking more consistent.
Simon.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hello VHM,
it's applying the brake and twisting your foot so as to apply throttle at the same time, normally a blip of the throttle to change down a gear.

Alec

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite, a true heel and toe is a little more involved than that. Say your shifting from second gear to first: in first gear, motoring along, and then you press the brake, while applying contant pressure to the brake, push the clutch in, and shift into neutral. Let the clutch out and give it a stab at the gas to bring the revs up to 3000-4000 revs (depending on your gearing), before the revs drop, push the clutch back in and downshift into first.

The reason for this is to match the gear speeds on the non-syncromesh gearboxes, which don't have a synchronizer on a gear, usually first.
 
Piman is correct on how to heel and toe. What Webb has described is what we used to call double clutching; I've also driven cornbinders (Internationals) and old Fords.
 
[ QUOTE ]
And please, do not ask why I am sure of this! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Jeff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hence the picture you show? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Bruce
 
Funny funny man!!
No, that wasn't the cause of the rollover, but I did loop the Spitfire by doing an unintentional 4-1 downshift.
As for the flip, shall we discuss trail braking next?
Jeff
 
[ QUOTE ]
I cought myself trying to heal and toe downshift in a 26' International diesel U-Haul truck last week. When I realized what I was doing, and the futility of it, I almost had to pull over because I was laughing so hard. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to work for them... you would be AMAZED what a couple of bored guys can do in one of those things!!! LoL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif trust me there is a reason those things are all pieces of crap, and its cause employees drive them harder than any customer would ever think of doing. Im not gonna admit to anything in public but yeah... lol
 
[ QUOTE ]
Piman is correct on how to heel and toe. What Webb has described is what we used to call double clutching; I've also driven cornbinders (Internationals) and old Fords.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heel and toeing is double de-clutching (de-clutching is the proper term), just while using the brake. I have read several book by professional drivers who describe heel and toeing as I did. Paul Frere for instance in his book called "Sports Car and Competition Driving."
 
Heated Debate!!!

Actually, you need to heel and toe in order to double clutch, but they aren't the same thing. Heel and toe is operating the brake and accelerator with the same foot at the same time. Double clutching is clutch in - shift to neutral, release clutch - rev the engine - clutch in, shift to next lowest gear - clutch out and drive on. You accomplish this by heel and toeing.

In the olden days, synchros were poor or non-existant and double clutching was necessary to synchronize the gears to shift down. You needed to shift down going into a corner because your drum brakes were fading so badly that slowing yourself with the engine was your only option. So you were usually braking and shifting down (by double clutching) at the same time. Hence the need for heel and toe. After years of driving Moss crashboxes in XK Jags, I remember this well.

BTW, in North America its called double clutching, in England its called double declutching. Just another example of the two countries separated by a common language!

Double clutching is unnecessary with modern synchros, and slows your downshifts, even when done with skill and alacrity. Heel and toeing to blip the throttle while downshifting is essential to smooth downshifts. If you match the flywheel and gearbox speeds on downshifting, there's virtually no wear on the clutch. If you rely solely on the synchros and don't blip the throttle, you are using the clutch to accelerate the engine, which momentarily causes clutch slip and accelerates clutch wear.

Plus, done well, it feels and sounds great! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
In what may or may not be a real life example of what we have been discussing; what kind of bizarre gear shifting was being performed by the driver of the Mustang in the famous chase scene from the movie "Bullitt"?
 
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