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Had no brakes...Why?

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79Spit

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This weekend was the weekend I was going to move my Spitfire out of a friend's garage, and move it back home. I checked the oil, which was fine, climbed in, and after a few tries, she fired right up. Nice. I started to back out of the garage and down her driveway (fairly steep ramp down to the side walk and road, but only about 30'). Once I hit the ramped portion, I stepped on the brakes, and the pedal went to the floor with no effect. I said (yelled) "No brakes!" and hoped I wouldn't bottom out where the sidewalk meets the driveway. It was OK, and I made it into the road OK, but was lucky no cars were coming. Eventually backed it back up into the garage until I get brakes back.

Question: Could brake fluid have leaked out over the Winter, and if so, can I just add some, or does the system need to be flushed or anything?

Thanks in advance for all replies.
 
Chances are it did leak out somewhere, so do check the reservoir first. If it is dry, you could try adding fluid and then just pumping the pedal carefully to see if you can build up any pressure. That doesn't tell you a whole lot, but it's a start.

Likely what you'll want to do is check the brakes on each wheel. Most likely possibilities would be a rear wheel cylinder; I don't remember seeing many front calipers that would leak that much fluid. Of course, you'll also want to check brake hoses to each wheel as well as the hard lines and all connections.

Oh, any puddles on the floor where it was stored? Alternatively, any puddles under the master cylinder or down the brake pedal and onto the carpet / mat / floor?

Personally, I wouldn't risk driving it until you find and fix the problem. (I've done it myself, but I'd NEVER recommend it to anyone else! :wink: )
 
I had pans under the car all Winter, because it does leak some oil and I didn't want to mess up my friend's garage floor. There was some oil spotting, and a little bit of what looked like anti-freeze (yellowish-green). That seemed odd to me. other than that, I wasn't really expecting no brakes, so I didn't pay much attention to where the spots were under. The reservoir was bone dry. I will add some fluid and try the pedal pump method as a start, and I will check the mat. The friend really wants her garage bay back, so I am hoping to just get it home, where I can work on it as necessary.
 
Don't forget you do have an Emergency Brake. Drive slow on dry roads and down shift.
 
I always check the brakes before I even start my cars after a winter storage. That includes the emergency brake. We all need to adopt a checklist before your first run of the season. Checking ALL fluid levels before turning on the car is critical one.

No brakes can get your attention very quickly. I had mine fail at 75 MPH heading for an exit on the freeway with my 10 year old daughter in the car. Brakes are higher on my list than a running engine. If it rolls it needs brakes.

I drove the car home using the e-brake and downshifting....interesting to say the least.

Your fluid leaked out somehow and you need to find the reason. I would jack the car up, pull the wheels, fill the reservoir and have a friend pump the brakes while you check all four corners and underneath. Replace anything that looks even marginally suspect.
 
The wife and the friend would not let me drive home (about 4 miles) using just the emergency brake, but I am willing to try it, going REALLY slowly.
 
Since you didn't see a large puddle under the car that suggests they were nearly dry when you parked last fall. So they could, or at last the master could've been dry most of the winter. When seals get wet with fluid and then have a chance to dry out they can fail relatively quickly. To be sure I'd not only fix the leak when you find it but reseal the master and perhaps one or more of the wheel assemblies, depending on where the leak is found. Might be a bit of overkill but better safe than finding out at 65 they're suddenly not up to snuff.
 
Andrew Mace said:
...Oh, any puddles on the floor where it was stored? Alternatively, any puddles under the master cylinder or down the brake pedal and onto the carpet / mat / floor?...
Click to expand...

Or maybe on the seat? :shocked:

Sure sounds like the thing to do is fill and bleed and look for any leaks as you go as it could be almost any component but should be easy to find once there is fluid, not air, in the system.

For every ride the first thing I do after starting the engine is a pump of the brake pedal to be sure they're still with me... but then I live on a mountain.
 
No booster (servo) on a Spitfire. Brake fluid can leak and pool in nooks and crannies around the MC. If the carpet and interior side of the firewall doesn't show any fluid leak signs, check all around the brake/clutch MC area in the engine compartment for any signs of leaks as well as wheel cylinders.
 
MikeP said:
When seals get wet with fluid and then have a chance to dry out they can fail relatively quickly. To be sure I'd not only fix the leak when you find it but reseal the master and perhaps one or more of the wheel assemblies, depending on where the leak is found. Might be a bit of overkill but better safe than finding out at 65 they're suddenly not up to snuff.
Click to expand...

Good point. I would be inclined to rework the whole system and be done with it. I have replaced pieces intermittently in an attempt to save money...only to have the new & improved part blow out the old worn part down stream. Best to do the system.

I just ran through Victoria Brit website on the Spit (buy the stuff from TRF though)

Master cylinder rebuild kit
Rear hoses
Wheel cylinders
Rear shoes
Front hoses
Front Pads
Various o-rings, etc
$160

Cheap in my book and you now know it is done....and done right.
 
I agree that now is the time to go through the hydraulics. If you repair one piece another is soon to fail.
I once drove my VW over 40 miles after the master cylinder failed as soon as I got to work. Of course I was in my 20's at the time. Now I would probably not try over 20 miles.
 
Thanks for all the advice and insight. I will examine all these areas for telltales, but won't feel better until I have the Triumph mechanic look at it. I could easily miss important stuff....though I am pretty good at puddles. ;-P
 
Update: I went and added brake fluid to the reservoir and pumped the pedal to see if anything would happen. Nothing at all. Brake pedal kept going to the floor with ease. I did not see any fluid leaks at any of the tires, and all the mats and seats were dry. I need to get this car out of the garage it is being stored in this weekend, so I guess it is downshift and E-brake time. Not sure where I head from there. Other alternative is to get it out on the street and then have it towed to my Triumph mechanic...Only problem is, this guy is EXPENSIVE....Of course so is finding out I didn't fix the brakes right myself while I am out on the road! Hmmmmm....
Just how didfficult is it to bleed the system and track down the leaks? Could a "regular" mechanic (non-British-car-specialized)do it easily enough?
 
When you put the fluid in after you pumped the brakes were the levels in the resevoir at the same height or did it go down? I had an issue once that was hard to track down because it was a slow leak....two days in the garage with several pieces of fresh cardboard and I found the wheel cylinder leaking around in the brake area.....normal driving was just slinging it all over the place.

I think any normal mechanic should be able to help you track it down....I would even try going to a Advance auto for a minute......sometimes the parts guys do an odd job or two....
 
79Spit said:
Just how didfficult is it to bleed the system and track down the leaks? Could a "regular" mechanic (non-British-car-specialized)do it easily enough?
Click to expand...

There's nothing particularly special about the brake system on a Spit. Any competent mechanic would be able to diagnose and repair the system.
 
The brake system is so very basic and simple. There's absolutly no reason that you can't do it yourself. Isn't that one reason we have these cars and use this Forum.
Read a manual, look at the pictures. Ask here if in doubt, post a picture if need be,
Have a little faith.
 
Sometimes, new or "dry" dual-circuit Girling cylinders can be a pain to bleed, which is why some advocate "bench bleeding" them. You've got nothing to lose (except suffering from a leg cramp) by pumping away madly awhile longer to see if you can build ANY pressure at all (keep an eye on the reservoir to make sure the fluid level doesn't drop too much). Frankly, I'd try that before wasting a lot of fluid bleeding a system that might have either a leak or an internally failing master cylinder, etc.!
 
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