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TR6 Got in a wreck - need some help on who to take it to and what to check

Geo Hahn

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...(b) report the accident to Hagerty and give them a statement as to the facts of the collision...

Before you have them on the phone, review in your mind how you will answer when they ask (and I am pretty sure they will ask) why you were on the road? &/or where were you going?

You want your reply to be succinct and ready without a long pause that might suggest you're thinking about your answer.

As for getting an entirely new paint job - the insurers are going to be on the look-out for 'betterment'. That said, this might be a time to get the entire car painted (or other work done) even if you have to pay part of the cost.
 

59diamond

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As far as an entirely new paint job what I mean is if the paint on the car is say older then it might be very difficult to match the paint and if you only paint the damaged area.I am speaking for myself and past experience. A partial paint job on only the damaged area may not match and if the insurance company can't satisfy me that it will I would demand that the whole car be repainted and put my car back to where it was. I don't consider this a "betterment" I consider it the right thing to do by the insurance company. I also don't think this slows things down, but lets the insurance company know up front what you expect from them.
 

Geo Hahn

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... A partial paint job on only the damaged area may not match... I don't consider this a "betterment"...

You and I might see it that way but an insurance company may view it differently.

For example, if a (used) tire was ruined in the accident and they had to replace it with a new tire I believe they typically charge a 'betterment' for the calculated difference in value between the used tire that was ruined and the new tire you got.

I'm not saying that is fair - just saying that I believe that is how it may work.
 

59diamond

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I under stand tires and wear etc. But if somebody damages my car that has a perfect paint job I expect them to make it perfect again even if it means repainting the whole car, or I would sue them.
 

Brinkerhoff

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The reason you have insurance is to protect your asset. Call Hagerty they'll help direct you to a competant shop that will fix it right. Hagerty will only pay up to 60 percent of your agreed value or they will total the car. They won't pay up to the agreed value to fix it , that just wouldn't make sense. If they total it , you'll have the option to buy it back for its salvage value. They won't pay for diminished value however.
 

dklawson

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Hagerty will only pay up to 60 percent of your agreed value or they will total the car. They won't pay up to the agreed value to fix it , that just wouldn't make sense.

The following is how they hint at it on their web site but they don't define what their percentage of the agreed value is the cutoff point for a total loss:
https://www.hagerty.com/Insurance/Classic-Car-Insurance
"In the event of a covered total loss, you receive every cent of your car’s insured value.* No depreciation. No messing around. No hassle."
and
"*Any deductible and/or salvage value if vehicle is retained by you will be subtracted from the total amount paid."

I hope I never have to test the limits of my coverage but I am confident that I have the best coverage possible.
 
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ichthos

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Thanks for the advice about thinking about my answer, but there was nothing to really think about. I was swamped at work and decided to just let a mechanic rebuild my carbs this time. I got a guy that is really good with British cars in Tacoma. I was on my way to him and was less than 5 miles away when I got hit. That plan sure did backfire.
 
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ichthos

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Update: I contacted Haggerty, and they have been very helpful. The next step is for an appraiser to come out. Not sure I understand the whole process as it is clearly the other driver's fault. Found out you have to report an accident within 48 hours. Also found out that if a police officer files a report, I don't have to file with the DMV. By the way, the paint is a non-issue for me. I have been restoring this car system by system, but left the paint/body for last.

I need more advice. All I want is for my car to be put back to where it was. Anything short of that will force me to get an attorney. Does this sound reasonable?:
1) a new panel welded in the rear that was damaged-no bondo.
2) original Lucus lenses (had nos in there)
3) frame checked
4) straighten/rechrome my bumper. (Mine has that extra bar on back, and luckily I had just taken it off.) or let me find a used one that can be rechromed.
5) hand brake fixed - for some reason it is not working after the accident.

I fixed the steering mainly so it is more convenient to drive around for estimates. I am checking on three places that were recommended tomorrow.
 

glemon

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One piece of advice was to say as little about the accident as possible on the accident report, just the straight facts, which I agree with, while I certainly think it is fine to ask about claim or collection procedures, I would also follow the advice about discussing the specifics of the accident on a public forum as well.....
 

Brinkerhoff

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I did explore the limits of my Hagerty policy two years ago with my 48 MGTC. The agreed value was 25,000 and repairs were estimated at 20,000. The car wasn't that bad but did require complete disassembly to a bare chassis frame to be repaired properly, as it had a slight twist to the main rails. They considered it a total loss but I was able to buy it back for salvage and they cut me a check for the difference from 25,000, then they are done. Their parameters for considering the car a total loss is 60% of the agreed value. They know the black hole that car restoration can be so they don't want to approach the agreed value with repair costs, it makes better sense for them to cash you out and sell the car for salvage. Great people to deal with . I got plenty of money to restore the car completely ( without charging myself labor of course) and properly.
 

HerronScott

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I did explore the limits of my Hagerty policy two years ago with my 48 MGTC. The agreed value was 25,000 and repairs were estimated at 20,000. The car wasn't that bad but did require complete disassembly to a bare chassis frame to be repaired properly, as it had a slight twist to the main rails. They considered it a total loss but I was able to buy it back for salvage and they cut me a check for the difference from 25,000, then they are done. Their parameters for considering the car a total loss is 60% of the agreed value. They know the black hole that car restoration can be so they don't want to approach the agreed value with repair costs, it makes better sense for them to cash you out and sell the car for salvage. Great people to deal with . I got plenty of money to restore the car completely ( without charging myself labor of course) and properly.

When you do this, do you end up with a salvage title for the car?

Scott
 

dklawson

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Scott, VA probably handles this differently than NC. Here the salvage title would be generated when the vehicle's title is transfered and the cost of the damage exceeds a certain percent of the value of the car. The owner is obligated to make a declaration on the title regarding previous damage at the time he signs it over to the new owner. The "new" title for the new owner would automatically be issued as a salvage title.

The question I have about salvage titles and Brinkerhoff's example above is... when you "keep" the car does the title remain in your name all the time... or by settling with the insurance do they take ownership of the car and sell it back to you? If the title remains in your name, there is a good chance that the repaired vehicle would continue to accrue in value and by the time you choose to sell the car the previous accident damage may again fall below the critical percentage that would dictate a salvage title. Lastly, when you finished the repairs on your '48 were you able to insure it again with Hagerty?

Sorry... I know that sounds like a bunch of rambling text. Perhaps the lawyers following this thread will see my post and comment.

Ichthos, do keep up up to date with your settlement. I am very interested in knowing what happens and how Hagerty handles this.
 

Kleykamp

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Update: I contacted Haggerty, and they have been very helpful. The next step is for an appraiser to come out. Not sure I understand the whole process as it is clearly the other driver's fault. Found out you have to report an accident within 48 hours. Also found out that if a police officer files a report, I don't have to file with the DMV. By the way, the paint is a non-issue for me. I have been restoring this car system by system, but left the paint/body for last.

I need more advice. All I want is for my car to be put back to where it was. Anything short of that will force me to get an attorney. Does this sound reasonable?:
1) a new panel welded in the rear that was damaged-no bondo.
2) original Lucus lenses (had nos in there)
3) frame checked
4) straighten/rechrome my bumper. (Mine has that extra bar on back, and luckily I had just taken it off.) or let me find a used one that can be rechromed.
5) hand brake fixed - for some reason it is not working after the accident.

I fixed the steering mainly so it is more convenient to drive around for estimates. I am checking on three places that were recommended tomorrow.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grip on reality and should not have much trouble getting things handled. A good shop will do a thorough inspection to determine all damages and estimate based on what it would take to repair it all. They make their money by finding and repairing all the damage, so it's in their interest to make sure they find everything.I fully understand why you would want a new rear body panel, but sometimes a repaired panel is better than a replacement. It depends on how badly the panel is damaged. Cutting out and welding in a new rear body panel is a pretty invasive task to your car, and would likely require the use of some filler "bondo" even if replaced. Even the factory uses filler to smooth surfaces. Out of curiousity, I looked up the part price thru Moss 349.00 for the outer rear body and 599.00 for the reinforcement(if needed). A shop could spend a lot of time making a good repair, for that kind of money. You might consider deferring that choice to the shop. Most shops guarantee their work...some for as long as you own the car. If you were out any expense to fix the steering, they should also reimburse you for that. Sounds to me like you are reasonable and should not have to take on the cost of an attorney to get where you want to be. Just make sure you get a satisfactory explaination to anything you have questions or concerns about.
It is true that Hagerty would not be on the hook for deminished value. Their responsibility is based on a contract (policy). The liable party has a different level of responsibility. Frankly, unless your car was a pristine survivor, that would likely be a mute point anyway.
As for the full paint job: The shop will likely figure painting the panels that they actually work on and then blending in to the next panel to achieve as near of a match as possible. I've seen that involve as much as a half the car in some cases. It really just depends on what parts the damage is. If that were the case the shop might give a break on completing the whole thing.With the blacked out body panel in the rear, they may not need to get into the color at all. But, if you want to bicker, argue and fight for the next 3 months, you can ask for a complete repaint... and most likely still not get it. It sounds like you are reasonable about that part anyway. I won't muddy the waters with anything else. Sounds like you are on the right track to recovery.
 

Brinkerhoff

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In my case , I kept the title . I did ask about whether the title would somehow be shadowed with "salvage" status before I settled with them and they assured me it would not. That would have affected the value I would have placed on it when restored ,of course. I've fully documented the restoration with the frame repairs and straightening as I don't intend to mislead anybody should I sell the car. They did drop the agreed value down to the "salvage" value until I could provide them with pics of the restoration , I think it insured for 20,000 at the moment as the restoration is half finished. They offered the same protection on the car when fully restored, though I think I'll pick a higher dollar figure then , than I did the first time !

With regards to how much Hagerty will pay for repairs , I know of two instances with restored Healeys up here that Hagerty paid for an overall refinish on one and they paid for much more additional work to have shoddy bodywork repaired on another.

I'm proud to say that I do business in the same town as they do ( Traverse City Michigan) , they really care.
 
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ichthos

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Another update. The Damage appraiser came out. Not sure what money I will get, but we were in perfect agreement on what needed to be done. The guy agreed that the back three panels needed to be replaced. Now I wait to see just how much money they will allow. In a day or two I should know what their estimate is, and then I have to contact the claims adjuster. What I don't understand is Hagerty seems to be concerned that I don't approach the $7,000 I currently have it ensured for. From my standpoint, the other company is on the hook, so I am not sure why that is a factor.
 

TR3driver

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From my standpoint, the other company is on the hook, so I am not sure why that is a factor.
I'm not sure how it goes with Haggerty, but with my insurance company, they will only subrogate up to the insured value. They had no objections if I wanted to pursue the other company for more than that, but they would not help me do it.

I didn't go that route, but I'm guessing that the other company is likely to notice the change, and know the reason for it. They are then going to argue that the car must only be worth $7k, otherwise you would have insured it for more.

'Salvage' laws vary by state. Dunno about WA, but in CA the law requires a "salvage" title if the insurance company writes it off as a total loss. The insurance company reports the settlement to the state, and the state invalidates your old title. In order to drive it again (or sell it), you have to get a new title (which says "Salvage" in big letters), have the car inspected and so on. As far as I know, the only way around this is to negotiate a settlement that is less than the value. (I've heard that even $1 less is good enough.)
 

Kleykamp

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Subrogation means, in a nut shell, your company "loans" you the money for you to get your car repaired or the value of your car, based on your policy amount. In turn, you give your right to recover the damage over the your company. This meets your obligation to the "loan". It's not a loan you have to pay back. They are obligated to pay you by the terms of YOUR policy. They have no legal right to any more money than they have "loaned" you. It's not that they WON'T help you...it's that they have no right to ask for more than they paid. They used to have you sign a "Loan Agreement" in order to show they had a right to the money owed you, but that has kind of fallen by the wayside in most cases. Bottom line is, they cannot "work" for you to get anything they haven't paid and they have no obligation to pay you more than your policy limit (agreed value).
As for the concern about approaching the $7000...and I'm going to have to read my policy on this one...IF the "agreed value" is $7000 and you and Hagerty have already agreed that IS the value of your car, and the salvage value of the car is $1000, then you would only get paid either $7000 and they take your car or $6000 and you keep the car. If the cost to repair is $6500 you'll be losing money by going thru them. I'm not sure if the $7000 is a "agreed limit" on the policy or an actual two way agreement stating that the two of you(you and Hagerty) have "pre-agreed" that IS the value of your car. I'm going to check the policy, because that could most definitely affect the amount I want to carry. I am currently carrying enough to cover only my investment...which may be my mistake.
Under liability laws the other (trucking) company or their insurance owes you the cost of repair up to the Actual Cash Value (ACV) less salvage value. Most states, and I don't know Washington, have a percentage of damages as compared to ACV at which point you have to get a Salvage Title and this establishes the basis of what is a "total loss". Some don't require a salvage title if the car is over a certain age. In this case, if you car is worth 8000 and salvage is worth 1000 they would pay up to 7000 to repair so you would be ahead to go thru them. As I have said before: Move slowly and ask questions.
As for the other company using your $7000 agreed value to limit their amount. 1) they have no way of know that unless you tell them 2) It's easily explained that you insured it for your investment in the car, not the ACV. Randall is right, they could try to use that as negotiating point, but it won't hold water.
I am not a lawyer and also not familiar with Washington state laws, so I'm not giving legal advise here, just trying to help you understand what your options are. That's my disclaimer. I retired after 35 years of handling claims, mainly in KY but some in other states. I'm somewhat amused at myself for even discussing this stuff, after being so happy to get away from it when I retired 3 years ago. I'm not giving advise, I don't know enough details to give advise, such as what your car is worth, what the salvage is worth and so on. Keep pluggin.
 

dklawson

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... so I'm not giving legal advise here, just trying to help you understand what your options are.

Regardless of how the information you are providing is categorized, I find your posts very helpful and eye opening. They are thought provoking and greatly appreciated.
 

tomshobby

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I was forced off the road twice in the 60's. Once was in my TR4 and the other was in a Plymouth Valiant. I had Allstate insurance for both vehicles. The Plymouth was severely damaged from hitting a large power line pole and was totaled. That involved a vehicle that fled the scene but was identified. Allstate sent an investigator and eventually the other driver admitted to causing the accident. The other driver was never found when the TR4 was damaged. It rolled over three times. Allstate was great both times. I got a nice settlement with the Valiant and the TR4 was repaired better than new with a complete new body from the factory in England.
 
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