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GeoThermal project shut down
- Thread starter Basil
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tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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Dooooo...^dooooo...dooo...do
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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Possibly a cloaked Klingon battleship snuck through that black hole & right now it's commander is negotiating with the leaders of Russia to take over the world....
GregW
Yoda
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I'm definitely not in the extraterrestrial camp. I'm just saying what's in the video behaves weird. I've seen rocket trails that glow at night because they are high enough to catch sunlight. If the trail went out of the suns path (from earth rotation), I would expect it to go dark from the bottom up. Not go dark in an expanding circular pattern.
bgbassplyr
Darth Vader
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I heard it is a Russian rockrt test. Affected countries were notified.
hilsideser
Jedi Warrior
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...worm hole effect, Captain!
DaveatMoon
Jedi Hopeful
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I don't know why people insist on making large scale electrical power plants out of everything. It's as if we won't allow ourselves the energy we need unless we force ourselves to buy it from some giant, powerful entity.
For a very good description of the potential of small scale geothermal energy, google George W. Bush's ranch in Crawford, TX. His is one of the best home systems out there, and relative to a conventional home HVAC system is "generating" (by saving) thousands of kilowatt-hours per year! :cowboy:
There is a higher cost of installation for a GHP (Geothermal Heat Pump) system, but they have save between 30% and 70% on energy consumption and have a working lifespan of up to 5X that of a typical conventional furnace/heat pump/air conditioner. There are currently over 1 million GHP systems operating in the U.S.
For a very good description of the potential of small scale geothermal energy, google George W. Bush's ranch in Crawford, TX. His is one of the best home systems out there, and relative to a conventional home HVAC system is "generating" (by saving) thousands of kilowatt-hours per year! :cowboy:
There is a higher cost of installation for a GHP (Geothermal Heat Pump) system, but they have save between 30% and 70% on energy consumption and have a working lifespan of up to 5X that of a typical conventional furnace/heat pump/air conditioner. There are currently over 1 million GHP systems operating in the U.S.
OP
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DaveatMoon said:
If one can afford the initial installation and could recoup the costs in a reasonable period, considering the time-value of money, then I'd say I agree. Do you have such a system installed for your energy needs? If so, how's it working out and how much was the initial installation?
DaveatMoon
Jedi Hopeful
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No, but I wish I did. I just don't have the money to put in it right now, and I live in an area where it would be pretty expensive. The only "green" energy device I have right now (besides a hybrid car) is a small solar panel that powers my attic ventilation.
It's hard to find firm quotes on GHP initial installation because it varies widely depending on terrain, available space, and local geology. A good rule of thumb is about $2500/ton, with final cost for an average house ranging between $4000.00 (if you're very lucky) to around $11,000.00, plus the cost of drilling. Drilling for these systems adds another $10,000 and up depending on geology.
Those costs are made up quickly in many areas with energy savings, especially for a household using $300.00+ of electricity per month. In some areas with high utility costs installation costs can be made up within 5 years, although around 10 years is more typical. In the near future that will likely change as conventional energy costs are expected to outstrip inflation by a wide margin, and soon.
www.consumerenergycenter.org geothermal heat pump page
www.toolbase.org geothermal heat pump page
It's hard to find firm quotes on GHP initial installation because it varies widely depending on terrain, available space, and local geology. A good rule of thumb is about $2500/ton, with final cost for an average house ranging between $4000.00 (if you're very lucky) to around $11,000.00, plus the cost of drilling. Drilling for these systems adds another $10,000 and up depending on geology.
Those costs are made up quickly in many areas with energy savings, especially for a household using $300.00+ of electricity per month. In some areas with high utility costs installation costs can be made up within 5 years, although around 10 years is more typical. In the near future that will likely change as conventional energy costs are expected to outstrip inflation by a wide margin, and soon.
www.consumerenergycenter.org geothermal heat pump page
www.toolbase.org geothermal heat pump page
V
vagt6
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A small example of energy efficient building is my new garage addtion. I added a 24 X 32 garage with living space above, and had sprayed-on foam insulation done in all walls and the ceiling. Also had the slab underneath insulated as well.
And while we were at it, we had the ceiling, roof and crawl space in the old portion of the house (built 1944-brick) insulated with the sprayed foam as well. It was NOT cheap, cost about $12,000 for the new addition and the old part of the house. The payback will take many years, obviously. However, the energy savings are significant: I now have approximately 1,800 additional square feet to heat/cool, and my total energy bills are LESS than they were before the addition was done!
But there's more to it than the payback in energy savings. This house will be easier to sell, and it's value increased from installing the modern insulation. It's also quieter, and a heckuva lot warmer.
Somehow very soon, some genius will invent a method or material that will bring these costs down so everyone can incorporate them into their build/renovation projects. Too bad it's so darn expensive now.
Also, it seems a no-brainer to invest at least some part of your portfolio in green tech and/or green industry. It's gonna get real popular as energy costs continue to rise.
Back to my hole now . . .
And while we were at it, we had the ceiling, roof and crawl space in the old portion of the house (built 1944-brick) insulated with the sprayed foam as well. It was NOT cheap, cost about $12,000 for the new addition and the old part of the house. The payback will take many years, obviously. However, the energy savings are significant: I now have approximately 1,800 additional square feet to heat/cool, and my total energy bills are LESS than they were before the addition was done!
But there's more to it than the payback in energy savings. This house will be easier to sell, and it's value increased from installing the modern insulation. It's also quieter, and a heckuva lot warmer.
Somehow very soon, some genius will invent a method or material that will bring these costs down so everyone can incorporate them into their build/renovation projects. Too bad it's so darn expensive now.
Also, it seems a no-brainer to invest at least some part of your portfolio in green tech and/or green industry. It's gonna get real popular as energy costs continue to rise.
Back to my hole now . . .
V
vagt6
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Don, they sprayed around most of it, and actually sprayed over some of the cold water and wastewater pipes (I may regret this at some later point).
In the "old" part of the house I have gas hot water (boiler) heat, they didn't spray those pipes and there isn't much electrical stuff under there. There was a lot of labor involved in spraying the stuff in my (old) attic. They had to remove the attic flooring, and then move around a lot of the junk I have up there. The attic alone took a couple days' work for about three men. The spraying goes quickly, though.
The spray-on exanding foam insulation is relatively new to the residential market and I found that it paid to shop around for pricing. The big cost factor to the vendors is the big truck that they use for the foam application: it costs around $150,000 or more. All three companies I got quotes from had a new truck, and I assume that they have not absorbed/amortized the startup costs yet. Thus, prices are high. Plus, the foam is at least partially petroleum-based and subject to the overall petroleum market fluctuations. Other sparay foam materials are available, including soy-based foam, but it's expensive and also contains some petroleum products.
I'd assume that the cost to apply the spray on expanding foam will decrease once the local HVAC companies absorb these initial startup costs. As a result, it may (or may not) pay to wait a year or two if you're thinking about doing this, IMHO.
In the "old" part of the house I have gas hot water (boiler) heat, they didn't spray those pipes and there isn't much electrical stuff under there. There was a lot of labor involved in spraying the stuff in my (old) attic. They had to remove the attic flooring, and then move around a lot of the junk I have up there. The attic alone took a couple days' work for about three men. The spraying goes quickly, though.
The spray-on exanding foam insulation is relatively new to the residential market and I found that it paid to shop around for pricing. The big cost factor to the vendors is the big truck that they use for the foam application: it costs around $150,000 or more. All three companies I got quotes from had a new truck, and I assume that they have not absorbed/amortized the startup costs yet. Thus, prices are high. Plus, the foam is at least partially petroleum-based and subject to the overall petroleum market fluctuations. Other sparay foam materials are available, including soy-based foam, but it's expensive and also contains some petroleum products.
I'd assume that the cost to apply the spray on expanding foam will decrease once the local HVAC companies absorb these initial startup costs. As a result, it may (or may not) pay to wait a year or two if you're thinking about doing this, IMHO.
bgbassplyr
Darth Vader
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SPF has been used for many years as a roofing material, mostly now as a re-roofing application. What is used now can be walked on as long as the underlying structure is sound. Foam between rafters cannot be walked on. You must also use a formulation for the intended space, i.e., in an existing wall, the expansion rate must be such that it does not knock the drywall off the wall studs. Foaming around windows falls into the same condition as uncontroled expansion will warp the frame and the window will bind up and be unusable.
Used in the correct formulation, SPF is an excellent insulator and will also prevent drafts around windows, doors, electrical outlets, wall penetrations, etc. Rhom & Hass is one of the major manufacturers.
Used in the correct formulation, SPF is an excellent insulator and will also prevent drafts around windows, doors, electrical outlets, wall penetrations, etc. Rhom & Hass is one of the major manufacturers.
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Jim said:
*gigglesnort*
Had to BRACE th' frame around th' front door replacement for bein' cavalier about th' foam. A fair bit o' scramblin' about fer braces, jacks an' suchlike to keep that stuff at bay.
It all worked out, but some highly inventive quick thinkin' was called for. :wink:
bgbassplyr
Darth Vader
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Guessin I shoulda told yous sooner.
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'sokay, Jim. This was a "lesson" we shoulda remember'd from back in th' racin' days. We once made a rear wing for a FA out of aluminium sheet and decided we'd try the "new" expanding foam as a filler... structurally stiffen the wing and add minimum weight. Weeeellll.... we calculated it a bit onna 'fat' side. Didn't rupture the wing but there was a fair bit of nail biting as the stuff settled down. Wing was a bit thicker profile than originally calculated. :wink:
That stuff had to be measured/mixed as a two-part compound. Slow to expand, too.
That stuff had to be measured/mixed as a two-part compound. Slow to expand, too.
bgbassplyr
Darth Vader
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DrEntropy said:Jim said:
*gigglesnort*
Had to BRACE th' frame around th' front door replacement for bein' cavalier about th' foam. A fair bit o' scramblin' about fer braces, jacks an' suchlike to keep that stuff at bay.
It all worked out, but some highly inventive quick thinkin' was called for. :wink:
Flip flops flappin', many expletives (deleted), big sigh....