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Fuel Question from newbie
- Thread starter jerrybny
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64Spitfire
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Fuel today is no longer leaded(due to environmental freaks and their misplaced concern about automobile exhaust being the primary polluter of the atmosphere, when industrial pollution is the real problem.) <hr></blockquote>
Removing lead from fuel was not because of pollution in the atmosphere, it was due to pollution in soil. You ever read any articles on the soil of Mexico City. Scary stuff. They took it out of fuel for the same reason they removed it from paint...it messes up little kids!
I say if you got the money go ahead and do the upgrade. Then you don't have to hassle with the additives. I'm with Dave on this one.
Removing lead from fuel was not because of pollution in the atmosphere, it was due to pollution in soil. You ever read any articles on the soil of Mexico City. Scary stuff. They took it out of fuel for the same reason they removed it from paint...it messes up little kids!
I say if you got the money go ahead and do the upgrade. Then you don't have to hassle with the additives. I'm with Dave on this one.
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I'm with Dave on this one also. Steven I hope you know I was just joking
All kidding aside do you think your tr6 could make it out here for the race.
p.s. Dave myopic? I think NOT!!!!!!
[ 02-28-2004: Message edited by: jv ]
[ 02-28-2004: Message edited by: jv ]</p>
p.s. Dave myopic? I think NOT!!!!!!
[ 02-28-2004: Message edited by: jv ]
[ 02-28-2004: Message edited by: jv ]</p>
lead doesn't mess up little kids....lousy parents do. Kids were a lot less messed up while we were using leaded gasoline, than they are today.
I'll continue to use lead additives because it works for me, and because it makes sense to me.
My TR could make it there...I've driven it to Seattle from here on a few occasions. I can go through a lot of cans of additive for the same price of so called "upgrading" the valves.
Now about Mexico City. Who published that report? The Sierra Club? While Mexico City may be polluted, so are American Cities. While this isn't a geography forum...one of you brought it up..so I'll say that at least Mexico City has Industry ....and jobs....and while easier regulations on industry are partially responsible for that...harsh, unattainable pollutant controls on industries here, have all but driven business and jobs out of the country. Now while you guys might all be retired and not care...I'm not, and I do.
Oh, and by the way....I don't give a rip who stands with "Dave"..... I respectfully disagree with him. It seems that volume=correctness which I find rather troubling.
I'll continue to use lead additives because it works for me, and because it makes sense to me.
My TR could make it there...I've driven it to Seattle from here on a few occasions. I can go through a lot of cans of additive for the same price of so called "upgrading" the valves.
Now about Mexico City. Who published that report? The Sierra Club? While Mexico City may be polluted, so are American Cities. While this isn't a geography forum...one of you brought it up..so I'll say that at least Mexico City has Industry ....and jobs....and while easier regulations on industry are partially responsible for that...harsh, unattainable pollutant controls on industries here, have all but driven business and jobs out of the country. Now while you guys might all be retired and not care...I'm not, and I do.
Oh, and by the way....I don't give a rip who stands with "Dave"..... I respectfully disagree with him. It seems that volume=correctness which I find rather troubling.
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Steven, I admire a guy with conviction. But I have to doubt the conviction of someone who sounds as if he used to eat the old lead paint off of window sills. You challenged me to a race, so I believe I get to pick the course.We have a nice tight forest road nearby. Narrow , twisty to a fault , lined with boulders , pines and rougher than a cob. Let's RALLY Steven! Dont worry though I also have a truck we can drive up the mountain to pick up the pieces and parts of your tr6.I'll even take whats left back to Tacoma for you or do you live in the suburbs. Still game? Come on out, but you will need to bring a additive . LOCKTITE RED.
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I have to stand with Dave on this subject. I do not believe that volume=correctness which Steven seems to argue. I do however believe that the affects of lead poisoning are quite real and well documented. As for American Industry I think Unions have done as much if not more than strict enviromental controls to chase industry into thrid world country's where they can get 12 year olds to work for 1 dollar a day. Sorry Steven I can't side with you on this but I admire your dogedness.
Cheers,
Walter
Cheers,
Walter
Walter: If we didn't have Unions...workers here would be paid a $1 a day. Then businesses wouldn't have to go anywhere to find cheap labour. Workers need Unions to protect them from Management's agendas, which are not in the workers best interest, but their own best interest. How about you blame it on corrupt politics and lawyers. The tax structure, regulatory structure, lousy health care structure, and litigation have sent companies elsewhere.
Not to stray too far afield, I will never believe that cars designed to run on LEADED fuel don't need lead additive to make up what's missing. Pulling heads off motors just to avoid using additives, is like having open heart surgery instead of watching one's diet. It DOESN'T make any sense whatsoever. I'd rather spend more time enjoying my car than ripping its guts out for no reason.
[ 02-29-2004: Message edited by: Steven ]</p>
Not to stray too far afield, I will never believe that cars designed to run on LEADED fuel don't need lead additive to make up what's missing. Pulling heads off motors just to avoid using additives, is like having open heart surgery instead of watching one's diet. It DOESN'T make any sense whatsoever. I'd rather spend more time enjoying my car than ripping its guts out for no reason.
[ 02-29-2004: Message edited by: Steven ]</p>
oh by the way JV....my other vehicle is a Jeep, so if you ever get past the first couple of pebbles offroad...I'll tow you out
Other than that....I'm used to the forest..living in the Bitteroot range of North Idaho will do that to you....and I still say I could take a Sprite with my 6 any day of the week. The only additive you'll need is a tow rope to get both of your vehicles out from 10 ft. beyond the pavement.
Other than that....I'm used to the forest..living in the Bitteroot range of North Idaho will do that to you....and I still say I could take a Sprite with my 6 any day of the week. The only additive you'll need is a tow rope to get both of your vehicles out from 10 ft. beyond the pavement.
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Walter, Cant you see Steven doesnt give a rip who stands with Dave. Its getting crowded around Dave any how. Do you know the inital signs of lead poisoning is oversensitivity and tourets like name calling?
jv
jv
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Steven quit yaking and come on out. Thats my responce. Oh and by the way concrats on the new car Jerry.
jv
ps oversensitivity and name calling Steven, You should go get that checked
[ 02-29-2004: Message edited by: jv ]</p>
jv
ps oversensitivity and name calling Steven, You should go get that checked
[ 02-29-2004: Message edited by: jv ]</p>
I'm not gonna quit yakking(it has 2 k's, not 1.) That's what forums are all about. And I still think you're wrong, so there!
And I never called anyone any freaking name either. Where the heck did you pull that out from? You've been throwing all the crap about lead paint around. I'm beginning to think you painted your car with acrylic latex and a brush.
[ 02-29-2004: Message edited by: Steven ]</p>
And I never called anyone any freaking name either. Where the heck did you pull that out from? You've been throwing all the crap about lead paint around. I'm beginning to think you painted your car with acrylic latex and a brush.
[ 02-29-2004: Message edited by: Steven ]</p>
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Steven, Take a good look at Daves Healey(thats Healey with two e's). A myopic mind doesnt create that.You know nothing about me my cars or the course i'll spank you on. It sounds as if you are speaking from experience again.
jv
jv
Dang, a throwdown and I missed it.
Dave's right, folks. Most additives, fuel injector cleaners, etc, aren't worth the bottle they come in.
Lead additives are arguably the exception to that, but it still makes precious little sense to use 'em. The ONLY excuse for using them is because of valve recession, which is pretty much a non-issue, since hardened seats have been installed as a matter of course for more than 10 years now. If your head has had any work done in the last decade, you've got hardened seats. And even if you don't when (if, really) you ever have an head work done, they're going to put hardened seats in. And the work will cost you less than the endless cans of lead additive you've dumped in the tank in the meantime.
Other additives aren't worth a plug nickel. They don't do diddly.
Dave's right, folks. Most additives, fuel injector cleaners, etc, aren't worth the bottle they come in.
Lead additives are arguably the exception to that, but it still makes precious little sense to use 'em. The ONLY excuse for using them is because of valve recession, which is pretty much a non-issue, since hardened seats have been installed as a matter of course for more than 10 years now. If your head has had any work done in the last decade, you've got hardened seats. And even if you don't when (if, really) you ever have an head work done, they're going to put hardened seats in. And the work will cost you less than the endless cans of lead additive you've dumped in the tank in the meantime.
Other additives aren't worth a plug nickel. They don't do diddly.
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"The work will cost you less than the endless cans of lead additive"
It seems the relience on lead additive is kind of MYOPIC.
jv
It seems the relience on lead additive is kind of MYOPIC.
jv
Allright, UK is a little different, as the absence of lead is a relatively new phenomena there. Here in the US, it's been gone for decades, and it's difficult to find a head that DOESN'T have hardened seats anymore.
But 400 to put valve seats in? Man, that sounds excessive.
Either way, personally I'd rather fix it right once and never worry about it again.
But 400 to put valve seats in? Man, that sounds excessive.
Either way, personally I'd rather fix it right once and never worry about it again.
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Baxter:
Allright, UK is a little different, as the absence of lead is a relatively new phenomena there. Here in the US, it's been gone for decades, and it's difficult to find a head that DOESN'T have hardened seats anymore.
But 400 to put valve seats in? Man, that sounds excessive.
Either way, personally I'd rather fix it right once and never worry about it again.<hr></blockquote>
For me, I wouldn't do it unless it was part of a general overhaul I was doing on the head. If I already had the head off for major work, I might go ahead and to the hardened seats, but I really think its not an urgent problem unless you really drive your car hard - and often. I drove my EType for years un unleaded gas and there was no sign of such damage, but I drove relatively easy for those years.
Basil
Allright, UK is a little different, as the absence of lead is a relatively new phenomena there. Here in the US, it's been gone for decades, and it's difficult to find a head that DOESN'T have hardened seats anymore.
But 400 to put valve seats in? Man, that sounds excessive.
Either way, personally I'd rather fix it right once and never worry about it again.<hr></blockquote>
For me, I wouldn't do it unless it was part of a general overhaul I was doing on the head. If I already had the head off for major work, I might go ahead and to the hardened seats, but I really think its not an urgent problem unless you really drive your car hard - and often. I drove my EType for years un unleaded gas and there was no sign of such damage, but I drove relatively easy for those years.
Basil
Exactly. It's an overstated problem anyway, and on this side of the pond in all likelihood the car's had hardened seats put in it sometime over the past couple of decades. The last shop I went to wouldn't even put in anything BUT hardened seats. When you're having head work done, it'll get hardened seats. Until then, don't worry about it.
Piman is absolutely right. Driving a car manufactured to run on leaded gas without adding lead additive is foolhardy. I should have figured that only a Brit and a Canadian could come up with the "proper and correct" response.
I'm suprised you other guys have computers instead of manual typewriters.
I'm suprised you other guys have computers instead of manual typewriters.
No, spending a nickel on fuel additives is foolhardy, at least on this side of the pond. As I said before, in the UK the situation is a bit different, as they're currently where we were in the mid to late 70s as far as leaded fuel is concerned.
In the US though, if your car has had the head done within the last decade (or more), you already have hardened seats and don't need lead. If you plan on having headwork done within the next several years, you'll get hardened seats then, and you don't need lead. Either way, it's a waste of time and money for a problem that's nowhere near as prevalent as the folks marketing the snake oil would like you to believe.
In the US though, if your car has had the head done within the last decade (or more), you already have hardened seats and don't need lead. If you plan on having headwork done within the next several years, you'll get hardened seats then, and you don't need lead. Either way, it's a waste of time and money for a problem that's nowhere near as prevalent as the folks marketing the snake oil would like you to believe.