Fastener quality

[John_Mc]

I find that Orchard Supply Hardware has a good selection of fasteners, far more than Home Depot or Ace Hardware. Does anyone feel that I should be leary of the quality of grade 8 or stainless steel fasteners from OSH? I'm not sure of what other local resources for fasteners I have available, though I did notice there is a Fastenal store about 5 miles from my home. I know this topic has been discussed before ad infinitum, but I'm not too handy with the search feature :blush:. I'm soon off to buy replacement grade 8 hardware for my rear suspension. Is the original quality such that I should just reuse it? Any advice appreciated.

ps Pictures to follow of the DCO rear suspension rebuild.

 

[Guest]

Know nothing about OSH but they could be good. Avoid the big box stores like the plague when buying hardware. I get all my grade 8 from NAPA or better yet a bolt supply store.

Interestingly, the Allen-headed bolts that held my GoodParts super-strong steering rack clamps in came with some very good quality bolts. I managed to strip all of them by driving them home with an air ratchet. Home Depot or Lowes or even NAPA had nothing of that quality. My handy-dandy bolt specialty store in Lafayette, LA had them in stock, the same exact bolts and I got all 4 with all-metal locking nuts for 3 bucks.

 

[RonMacPherson]

Unfortunately Orchard Supply is a regional type store. The hardware that I looked up in the past, helping my Dad with some auto and house repairs, last time I visited him in Paradise(OSH was in Chico, if I remember right), the hardward was of good quality. But that was 10 years ago. Dunno what they have now.

Don't forget you can always go McMaster(s?)-Carr for Hardware.
Or a specialty store. The Bay area used to have a number of competent fastener stores. The problem with fastenal, is you have to buy bulk. At least here in Hawaii, that's the only way they sell.

When I need to rivet my top bows I didn't feel the need to purchase a box of 500.

 

[DougF]

If a fastener is oily to the touch, it usually means it's an import. About ten years ago there were some major problems with imported fasteners. Some will say that the quality is better today, but it is still very inconsistant.
I am not a fan of Fastenal. They are a price store. This means that the supplier is the guy who had the best price at the time of the purchase(usually imported), so you aren't guaranteed the same item at from purchase to purchase.
My personal experience was pulling two capscrews and three nuts from a Fastenal supplied bin. Two of the three nuts couldn't be run up either capscrew by hand. It may not sound important but if you want to get a proper torque, you need a fastener that will spin freely.
Erie Fastener manufactures quality nuts and bolts. If you can find a source for them, you will be in good shape.

 

[John_Mc]

The grade 8 stuff at Orchard Supply came in a box that said USA on it, so that gives me hope it's domestic stuff. Their sizes didn't match exactly what was on the car as far as length of the non-threaded portion. Also, what sort of lock nuts can I use with these bolts? They didn't have grade 8 lock nuts.

Also, I guess I should have asked where I actually <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">need</span></span> grade 8 bolts on the rear suspension.

 

[Scott_Hower]

I buy my hardware from the local CAT dealer. CAT makes their own and it's great stuff.

If I need really little stuff, I buy it from Aircraft Spruce. I dont trust big-box store hardware.

 

[DougF]

You shouldn't mix grades. For grade 8, the more commonly used locknuts today are all steel. These distort the threads slightly but work very well. About the best at holding against vibration as you are going to find. Less common are Grade 8 nyloc nuts. They aren't as strong against vibration, but work well for most of our applications.
Nyloc was most commonly used from the factory. You don't want to use nylocs around high heat. Don't reuse nylocs as the locking power diminishes greatly after the initial application.
A little tidbit on lockwashers. There are types that work very well, but the ones we are most familiar with, the interlocking type, don't. They do work occasionally, making them better than nothing.

 

[Tinster]

The grade 8 stuff at Orchard Supply came in a box that said USA on it, so that gives me hope it's domestic stuff. <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">need</span></span> grade 8 bolts on the rear suspension.

Ya gotta be ever so careful. I recently purchased stuff with "made in USA"
on the box. And yup, the cardboard box was indeed American made but the parts
inside were made in China.

I purchase all my fasteners from a local specialty shop. I avoid
Home Despot except for pool cleaning supplies and wood.

d

 

[tomshobby]

John, it is good to see this question asked. The best answer is probably the one for fasteners from CAT. The online site for Fastenal has lists containing domestic (US) and non domestic (pot luck) fasteners.
You can also do a search for fastener manufacturers and you will find search results from Thomas Registry come up. Thomas Registry will provide information for US manufacturers including contact information. Most will not sell to individuals but will assist you in being able to locate suppliers for and understand their product.
When chosing fasteners it might be good to keep in mind, GIGO! (garbage in, garbage out)

 

[71tr]

I've used boltdepot.com and aircraftspruce.com for all of my replacement hardware. Both offer grade 8 and stainless hardware as well as a selection of shank lengths which are crucial for suspension and drivetrain.

 

[rlandrum]

I buy from fastenal. They have grade 8 nylocks, and grade 8 castle nuts too. That's where I've purchased most of my G8 Fine Threaded nuts and bolts for the Triumph. For coarse threads, Tractor Supply sells G8 by the pound. I think it's $3.88 per lb. Those are of inferior quality compared to the fastenal G8s, but that could be due to the threading. I can shear off coarse threaded 1/4's with very little effort. No so on the fine threadsed ones...

 

[Guest]

I recently purchased a bunch of hot-dipped galvanized 1/4" lag screws from Home Despot. My intent was to fasten two treated planks together for my utility trailer. Now, I pre-drilled every hole for the 4" screws and used my 18v cordless driver to drive them home. Snapped every single one of them off! Pre-drilled holes yet.

 

[billspit]

I recently purchased a bunch of hot-dipped galvanized 1/4" lag screws from Home Despot. My intent was to fasten two treated planks together for my utility trailer. Now, I pre-drilled every hole for the 4" screws and used my 18v cordless driver to drive them home. Snapped every single one of them off! Pre-drilled holes yet.

Just as well as I've heard you should no longer use galvanized fasteners with the new treated lumber. It has a reaction with the copper in the treatment chemicals. You have to use stainless steel fasteners. I have seen some lately that are coated with something special, but not sure they really work.

At least this is what Tom Silva says on This Old House.

 

[DougF]

Poor quality is what caused your fastener failure. Thread doesn't enter in on capscrew strength, except that an SAE fastener (fine thread) has a stronger gripping strength than USS (coarse thread).

Bill,
Our company can not buy any screws domestically. Pretty sad. We have to import them in a raw form and have them treated and plated to our specifications. Sounds like the ones you purchased were never hardened.

 

[John_Mc]

So, what would you use, assuming these were your choices?

The bolts on the right would be for fastening the trailing arm bracket to the frame, and the bolts on the left are for the fastening the TA/bushing to the bracket. I could not find the 3/8" grade 8 in 3 1/2" length fine thread. OSH had 3" (pictured, but might be too short with shims in place) and 4"(too long), 3 1/2" coarse thread, and 3 1/2" grade 5 (also pictured). I'm tempted just to use the old bolts. I guess if I had more time, I'd just order online and wait, but I get anxious because I'm running out of time (I'd like to be on the road by month's end).

By the way, the boxes I got these new bolts from did say USA on them, but some also said "packaged in the USA using products made in one or more of the following countries: china, taiwan, hong kong, canada,..." etc. etc. Frustrating.

 

[DougF]

The head of the capscrew gives the description of what you have. Some manufacturers will leave a mark so they can be easily identified as theirs.
Black oxide coating is the worst for exterior use since they rust easily.
Plating color doesn't mean anything. Many people believe that G8 fasteners must be gold. Every G8 capscrew I sell is silver, and I sell 4 different grades of G8.
Grade 5 is rated at 120,000 psi minimum tensile strength. Grade 8 stands for any fastener rated at 150,000 psi minimum tensile strength or above. Some companies may try to pass off a larger grade than 8, but SAE doesn't recognize them. I would stay away from these as they are usually foreign.

 

[PeterK]

I read the fastner institute (or some such governing body) requires all hardware made in the USA to bear a letter designation somewhere on the head of a bolt. The letters denote the factory in which they are made. These are not the painted codes you see on HD lagscrews and bolts, but molded into the metal. Apparently since overseas doesn't have to adhere to a US governing body, they also do not have letter, just the grade identifiers.

Doug would know more, I'm sure.

Most the G8 I have sourced (from the hardware store, McMaster, Bolt Depot, Fastenall) has been gold zinc plated, some black oxide but usually in the huge sizes. At least no one around here sells plain silver colored zinc that I found yet. Some of the Fastenall stuff was more putty than gold.

 

[DougF]

I get questioned a lot because of our silver coloration. Many people have that gold mindset. Some believe that metric should be blue.
Something else you may find with better fasteners are higher heads for better gripping power. MC might have them, I don't know for certain. Clearance can be an issue in some high tolerance cases.
There are only a few domestic manufacturers.

 

[Twosheds]

I thought that the gold color came from cadmium plating. I may be thinking of AN hardware, though. Grade 8 gold might be different.

 

[DougF]

Yes, the gold is just the plating.