EVs for BCF'rs?

[NutmegCT]

Thanks Paul. Hadn't even thought of that. The colder the battery is, the slower the charge will be. So it'll *eventually* charge up, but it might be three or four times longer than in a temp of around 60F.

Manufacturers (Ford for example) recommend keeping the car in a heated garage in the winter - and not parking outside when you're on a drive. So spending an hour in Home Depot in the winter, leaving the car in the parking lot, isn't a good idea if the battery will need charging.

And unfortunately, charging an EV in cold weather actually reduces the batteries' power forever by chemically altering the lithium.

yeesh yeesh

 

[waltesefalcon]

"So far have put just over 3,000 km on it."

That's not very many miles to be judging a car on. When it has 300,000km (about 186,000miles) will it be on the road or in the junkyard?

It isn't just enough to cut the emissions of the vehicle itself. We need vehicles that will last decades, and a culture that does not promote rampant consumerism.

 

[JPSmit]

The Europeans are worried about Chinese companies dumping cars on the European market, but after driving for a while, I think they really should be terrified by the fact that a virtually new company in the market is delivering a high quality very competitive car.

Not just dumping but lots of counterfeit.

Motor Mouth: It might be time for ‘zero trust’ in our computer chips

As if invasive software hacking our cars isn’t enough to worry about, the pandemic’s chip shortage ushered in a new era of counterfeit processors

driving.ca

 

[mikephillips]

I had seen a study a year or so ago that was conducted in upstate NY in the winter with an EV. They found that in cold winter weather range could drop as low as 10 miles due to the cold affecting the battery and things like the heat being turned on. Remember that without hot coolant, has to use resistance heating. And how many work places have heated indoor type parking rather than a big lot?? Even if plugged in all day in the outside cold, sounds like it may not really help.

 

[NutmegCT]

An interesting discussion:

Tesla below zero currently

OK I am from Plainfield IL. I have the 23 RWD with LFP batteries. Its cold here, woke up to -10F/-23.3C. At work everyone has been asking me how's your electric doing. Since I use a 120V adapter to charge its been less than stellar. I was out of town and left my car in the airport lot for 4...

www.teslaownersonline.com

 

[Popeye]

I enjoy these “annual” discussions - it is interesting to hear various thoughts from various folks. I live in New England, and there is considerable “pro” sentiment. As is often the case, “believers” (in anything) are not always honest about the drawbacks.

To me, a battery powered car is simply another choice - similar to deciding if I want a compact or full size pickup; station wagen or SUV; new or used; etc. Each with benefits and drawbacks.

In my case, given the cost of electricity vs gasoline (including arguably unfair government subsidies - but which are fair??), and if I had unlimited garage space, I could save quite a bit of money by commuting with a Nissan Leaf.

Granted, I would lose any sex appeal I might still have…

 

[John Turney]

Regarding low temperature EV performance, recall how we all say that LBCs overheat in our American hot weather because they were made in England where it never gets hot? Teslas were designed in California where it doesn't get cold, unless one intentionally goes into the Sierra to go skiing.

 

[AngliaGT]

So,how long does a fully charged EV stay fully charged when unused
in normal weather/extreme cold weather?

 

[JPSmit]

I enjoy these “annual” discussions - it is interesting to hear various thoughts from various folks. I live in New England, and there is considerable “pro” sentiment. As is often the case, “believers” (in anything) are not always honest about the drawbacks.

To me, a battery powered car is simply another choice - similar to deciding if I want a compact or full size pickup; station wagen or SUV; new or used; etc. Each with benefits and drawbacks.

Granted, I would lose any sex appeal I might still have…

I think this is a key part of the discussion - different horses for different courses. Our good friends recently bought an electric Kia Soul - for about town driving. They have a Honda for longer trips - though they rarely travel so the electric covers probably 80+% of their driving. In Toronto I would have had an EV in a heartbeat - here in the County, not so much.

I do get the fraughtness of battery production/ storage/ disposal, and I would not put even a nickel in Elon Musk's pocket. At the same time we have either already passed peak oil or are near it and in other weather related threads we are discussing the effects of climate change (typically without naming it.) So, either from climate change or oil as a finite resource or both, something will need to change. (Also worth remembering that petrol production ain't exactly benign either)

I am personally more interested in fuel cell technology but I am also aware that various solutions will be required - including transit - (A friend's favourite quote: 'for every complicated question there is a simple answer - and it's the wrong one.')

The simple reality is that the future ain't what it used to be and the sooner we wrap our heads around this - and get cooperative and imaginative the better it gets.

Oh and Popeye, given that you hang around here and talk LBC's, pretty sure the sex appeal ship sailed long ago.

 

[NutmegCT]

J-P - you hit the nail on the head! Horses for courses.

I have one car (Nissan, 40 mpg), which I mostly use for commuting to my volunteer jobs; 100 miles each day. I can't afford a "second" car just for local travel. And heaven forbid I use an EV for my rare travels out of state - seems there's a lot of online talk about problems finding charging stations that actually work and dont' have a five hour wait. (A long-time car dealer (both ICE and EV) that I've known for over twenty years told me he's not even convinced EV is all it's cracked up to be.)

So the name of my horse, of course, of course, is the famous Mister Ed!

 

[PAUL161]

Vauxhall Adam C has the ultimate solution! Over a hundred miles on one windup!

 

[Popeye]

Oh and Popeye, given that you hang around here and talk LBC's, pretty sure the sex appeal ship sailed long ago.

So true!!!

 

[70herald]

Here's a picture of a bunch of EVs in Chicago with dead batteries that won't charge because it's too cold! I guess they'll have to take a bus! Wonder if free towing and cab fare is an option when purchasing one of these things.

View attachment 95341

Strangely enough, in Norway, Finland etc.. they actually manage to use their EVs in the winter. So what is the difference? Just as cold.
1st thing I see is that you have to "prepare" your car for charging when its really cold... well actually you don't do anything, if you tell the navigation system that you are heading to a charging station it prepares on its own. But then this means you sort of need to be an educated customer and sadly Americans aren't very good at this (not everyone of course) If you let the car know it is going to charge it lets the battery warm up so it can charge at a higher rate.

 

[70herald]

"So far have put just over 3,000 km on it."

That's not very many miles to be judging a car on. When it has 300,000km (about 186,000miles) will it be on the road or in the junkyard?

It isn't just enough to cut the emissions of the vehicle itself. We need vehicles that will last decades, and a culture that does not promote rampant consumerism.

Oh I totally agree.. I am very interested to see what this looks like in 3 years when I return it to the leasing co... and even more interested in finding out what they look like 10+ years on the road. Still initial quality is a significant measure. If it starts out as junk, it probably isn't going to get any better as it ages!

As Tom pointed out, it is a LOT easier to take a risk when it is someone else's $$$ paying. But that is a large part of why I decided to take the EV, other than the risk of being stuck with a car I might not like for 3 years there isn't any real risk (to me) other than whatever inconvenience it might cause and so far, it hasn't really been any different than any other modern car - but you do need to plan ahead - and I guess that is a real issue for some people.

 

[Rhodyspit75]

I doubt that I would go full EV but I think that there is a hybrid in my future. I have concerns about the mining of the materials for the batteries. As far as the recycling I recently heard of this company. > Homepage <. I’m not a stock holder!

 

[Brooklands]

If there were hydrogen stations around, I would consider a fuel cell vehicle. I did get to drive a fuel cell car years ago, and enjoyed that. I even to to refuel it at the Air Products Corp plant, but the public could not get hydrogen there. I might consider a hybrid the next time I am looking, but my Impreza keeps chugging along, and I see no need to replace it. I do not want an EV. It takes too much energy to fast charge it when traveling, and I would need to install a charging station at home and one at our place in the Pocono Mountains too.

 

[mikephillips]

I think fuel cells could be viable if they figure out a cheap way, energy wise, to create hydrogen. My understanding is current technology requires more to create it in cracking than you get back out.

 

[John Turney]

I think fuel cells could be viable if they figure out a cheap way, energy wise, to create hydrogen. My understanding is current technology requires more to create it in cracking than you get back out.

Cracking hydrocarbons to get hydrogen is how most hydrogen in commercial quantities is produced. Most of that is used in reforming the cracked hydrocarbons into more valuable hydrocarbons, like gasoline, diesel and jet fuel.

The ideal is that renewable energy would be used to produce hydrogen by electrolysis from water. Producing hydrogen this way has been around forever, but is only done in relatively small quantities. More often, electrolysis is used to produce oxygen, and the hydrogen is discarded.

The other issue with hydrogen is how to transport and store it. Unlike most fuel sources, liquifying it isn't an option.

 

[NutmegCT]

Generating hydrogen for observation balloons, ca. 1862.

Hallowed Air

The Civil War Trust, joined by three of the top Civil War ballooning experts, rediscover Lowe's famous balloon camp on the Gaines' Mill battlefield.

www.battlefields.org

A telegrapher in the basket would send battlefield and terrain information directly from the balloon at altitude, to the War Department in Washington DC.

 

[DocDup1]

I just read an article on liquid batteries. If hey work out, it could be a game changer. You drive your EV into a station and change the liquid or recharge your existing liquid. Changing the liquid takes about the same time and filling your gas tank. The old liquid is recharged and used again. In principle, you recharge your EV just like putting gas in any car. The technology is still in the early stages, but it looks interesting to me.