-
Hey Guest!
British Car Forum has been supporting enthusiasts for over 25 years by providing a great place to share our love for British cars. You can support our efforts by upgrading your membership for less than the dues of most car clubs. There are some perks with a member upgrade!**Upgrade Now**
(PS: Upgraded members don't see this banner, nor will you see the Google ads that appear on the site.)
Hey - did you know if you click on the title of a thread it will take you to the first unread post since you last visited that thread?
but were afraid to ask: 
STOP!! Never post your email address in open forums. Bots can "harvest" your email! If you must share your email use a Private Message or use the 
smilie in place of the real @
Pretty Please - add it to our Events forum(s) and add to the calendar! >> 
Ethanol may not be "Green"
- Thread starter Brooklands
- Start date
Share this page
GregW
Yoda
Offline
Re: Ethanol may not be "Green"
Basically, it is a way to put a value on carbon for trading purposes. A company that reforests would sell credits to say, a steel mill. That way the steel mill doesn't need to plant its own trees, they pay for it on a standardized value.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_credit
AweMan said:
Basically, it is a way to put a value on carbon for trading purposes. A company that reforests would sell credits to say, a steel mill. That way the steel mill doesn't need to plant its own trees, they pay for it on a standardized value.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_credit
Offline
Re: Ethanol may not be "Green"
Aweman: <span style="font-style: italic">"It never ceases to amaze me just how many people in general are hoplessly lost in the black hole spin cycle"</span>
Hit it on the nose. If we don't ask probing questions of the people making decisions, and instead just accept whatever they find on the 'net or tv, the decision makers continue accumulating their power by leaps and bounds.
And we just keep complaining and arguing back and forth among ourselves.
T.
Aweman: <span style="font-style: italic">"It never ceases to amaze me just how many people in general are hoplessly lost in the black hole spin cycle"</span>
Hit it on the nose. If we don't ask probing questions of the people making decisions, and instead just accept whatever they find on the 'net or tv, the decision makers continue accumulating their power by leaps and bounds.
And we just keep complaining and arguing back and forth among ourselves.
T.
RobT
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Re: Ethanol may not be "Green"
Its kind of a sad fact, but the OPEC oil ministers and Hugo Chavez, by limiting oil production and keeping oil prices at around US$100 a barrel, have probably done more to reduce greenhouse emissions than ethanol production. Price elasticity - when prices increase, consumption decreases - is in fact a very effective way to reduce emissions.
So the correct answer for limiting greenhouse emissions - a carbon tax. And this is not a tax for tax sake - you would be pricing the "externality", or societal cost of additional carbon emissions. For every ton of CO2 (or greenhouse gas equivalent) you emit, pay a tax ($/Ton). This allows for producers and consumers to optimize their energy consumption (e.g. choose natural gas as a fuel rather than coal, which for every BTU of energy produces 2-3 times the carbon) and encourages investment in energy conservation, carbon sequestration, reforestation and other forms of off-sets. A carbon tax would let good 'ol Adam Smith's invisible hand do its job and reduce greenhouse emissions in the most efficient way.
But it will be a brave politico that proposes a carbon tax, and it would need to be global, not just limited to the shores of one country - otherwise energy intensive industries would move to "tax free" countries, and continue to emit the same levels of carbon.
Tough problem, no easy answers.
Rob.
Its kind of a sad fact, but the OPEC oil ministers and Hugo Chavez, by limiting oil production and keeping oil prices at around US$100 a barrel, have probably done more to reduce greenhouse emissions than ethanol production. Price elasticity - when prices increase, consumption decreases - is in fact a very effective way to reduce emissions.
So the correct answer for limiting greenhouse emissions - a carbon tax. And this is not a tax for tax sake - you would be pricing the "externality", or societal cost of additional carbon emissions. For every ton of CO2 (or greenhouse gas equivalent) you emit, pay a tax ($/Ton). This allows for producers and consumers to optimize their energy consumption (e.g. choose natural gas as a fuel rather than coal, which for every BTU of energy produces 2-3 times the carbon) and encourages investment in energy conservation, carbon sequestration, reforestation and other forms of off-sets. A carbon tax would let good 'ol Adam Smith's invisible hand do its job and reduce greenhouse emissions in the most efficient way.
But it will be a brave politico that proposes a carbon tax, and it would need to be global, not just limited to the shores of one country - otherwise energy intensive industries would move to "tax free" countries, and continue to emit the same levels of carbon.
Tough problem, no easy answers.
Rob.
ecurie_ecosse
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Re: Ethanol may not be "Green"
And I'm going to learn to fiddle,just like Nero!
Stuart.
And I'm going to learn to fiddle,just like Nero!
Stuart.
anthony7777
Yoda
Offline
Re: Ethanol may not be "Green"
o.k. my 2 cents... Google "founder of the weather Chanel debunks global warming" - id tell you whom and what comp. owns millions of dollars in these "carbon credits" and the billions they stand to make if they can get us to subscribe to the warming theory but its way political.
o.k. my 2 cents... Google "founder of the weather Chanel debunks global warming" - id tell you whom and what comp. owns millions of dollars in these "carbon credits" and the billions they stand to make if they can get us to subscribe to the warming theory but its way political.
lawguy
Jedi Knight
Offline
Re: Ethanol may not be "Green"
OPEC has another trick that it has used from time to time. They have had the ability to control production and influence prices for a long, long, time- why don't they just jack up the prices as far as possible?
Simple, really- preserving dependency.
First, there is oil many places besides the OPEC nations. However, it is more expensive to extract the oil than buy it. If the price of oil from OPEC is too high, starting up more domestic production makes economic sense and there is an increased impetus towards exploration. OPEC does not want that.
Second, the higher the price of oil, the greater the reason to explore alternative energy sources and implement them. It takes years, if not decades to get promising new technologies, and in fact, old oil fields, online. OPEC can react much faster than that and when it senses that there may be a significant move which may reduce dependence on their product, it can lower proces quickly which will again make domestic oil and alternative energy too expensive to pursue profitably.
Quite the quandry.
OPEC has another trick that it has used from time to time. They have had the ability to control production and influence prices for a long, long, time- why don't they just jack up the prices as far as possible?
Simple, really- preserving dependency.
First, there is oil many places besides the OPEC nations. However, it is more expensive to extract the oil than buy it. If the price of oil from OPEC is too high, starting up more domestic production makes economic sense and there is an increased impetus towards exploration. OPEC does not want that.
Second, the higher the price of oil, the greater the reason to explore alternative energy sources and implement them. It takes years, if not decades to get promising new technologies, and in fact, old oil fields, online. OPEC can react much faster than that and when it senses that there may be a significant move which may reduce dependence on their product, it can lower proces quickly which will again make domestic oil and alternative energy too expensive to pursue profitably.
Quite the quandry.
beaulieu
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Re: Ethanol may not be "Green"
OPEC can also stop or start companies spending millions on alternative ideas,
If oil is $30 a barrel, then solar or wind power does not make economic sense ,
but if its $100 then you think you better do something ,
I guess we hope that like before , oil goes up and then dumps back down to its old $50-$60 level....
But this time we have China and India wanting the same fuel, and a shortage of refinery capasity in the USA....
It does not look good for the cheap gas again :frown:
OPEC can also stop or start companies spending millions on alternative ideas,
If oil is $30 a barrel, then solar or wind power does not make economic sense ,
but if its $100 then you think you better do something ,
I guess we hope that like before , oil goes up and then dumps back down to its old $50-$60 level....
But this time we have China and India wanting the same fuel, and a shortage of refinery capasity in the USA....
It does not look good for the cheap gas again :frown:
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Re: Ethanol may not be "Green"
Did you know that if you compare the price of gold over the years to the price of oil, they grow at about the same rate?
Right now, gold is a little over $1000 an ounce & oil is a little over $100 a barrel.
Did you know that if you compare the price of gold over the years to the price of oil, they grow at about the same rate?
Right now, gold is a little over $1000 an ounce & oil is a little over $100 a barrel.