English Metric System

[1976Midget]

So i am Confused if the English invented the Metric system why does the MG's Have so many Stanard Bolts on them?

 

[RonMacPherson]

M'sieu, Pardonnez Moi! Metric system is French in conception, control and design.

 

[1976Midget]

Really i always thought the English was the one that used it. i Leanred something today /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[spritenut]

We are an English settled colony, we got their measurements.
They went to the metric system because most of Europe was using it.

 

[JPSmit]

Canada went metric when I was about in grade 8 - so DW & I are half & half. (as is the country - we buy gas in litres and build houses in imperial) Anyway, the kids are all metric, to the point that when we moved to Florida, the first week we got there was the FCAT (standardized tests). My daughter is doing the math portion and raises her hand, teacher comes over and daughter asks, "what's a foot?" LOL

 

[piman]

Hello Mike,

there are still quite a few of us fighting a rearguard action against this terrible Metric system, alas, I feel it is a losing battle.

Incidentally early Morris cars had engines with Metric threads but the bolt heads were Whitworth sizes. (Because Morris bought a French engine factory but the U.K then was using the superior Whitworth thread system.)

Alec

 

[Speedy_Pete]

I think we Brits normally take credit for it if it's a good idea, but if it sucks we'll just blame the French. Probably their fault anyway...

 

[PC]

M'sieu, Pardonnez Moi! Metric system is French in conception, control and design.

I disagree.

While the French were the first to officially adopt metric measurements as a country, the SI system is international, conceived and designed by the scientific community and controlled by international committees and treaties.

French scientists are certainly influential and historically have made major contributions to the SI system of measurements, but the same can be said of British and American scientists (if not our popular cultures). (And the Dutch, Germans, Swiss and many others all have a hand in it too.)


PC.

 

[ncbugeye]

Correct. The Hotchkiss company was a French refugee to the UK during the First World War, and Morris in its early days bought engines from the company, then eventually acquired it.

 

[RonMacPherson]

Okay, perhaps I should have been a little more explicit, but thought what I said was enough. Forget the French scientist's name who conceived of and formulated the metric system, but remember being instructed about him in high school physics; So unless California textbooks in the early 60's were in error, it was a frenchman's conception.

Last I heard the master measurements were still kept in France. Where there was a recent article in the paper about some of the master measurements losing their mass.

It has become an international form of measurement spreading throughout Europe and the rest of the world(remember when Japanese metrics in the early 70's weren't the same as most european metric, they would choose a different thread pitch for a lot of their fasteners). So after the International muckety-mucks got together again, they decided to pretty much international standardize the Metric system. So it has become more standardized and spread even more.

I still think the Whitworth system is the best as far as providing the best strength of fit.

 

[1976Midget]

Cant you still find whitworth style Bolts?? i like the metric system. for the longest time that all i own was metric wrenches. it wasn't until i bought the MG i had to go buy Stanards.

 

[Sopwith_Camel]

from the BBC

EU gives up on 'metric Britain'
Bananas with imperial and metric measurements
Food can show imperial and metric measurements
European Union commissioners have ruled that Britain can carry on using imperial measurements such as pints, pounds and miles.

Europe's Industry Commissioner Gunter Verheugen said: "There is not now and never will be any requirement to drop imperial measurements."

The decision will not affect current law on metric measurements, but means imperial equivalents can be used too.

It follows years of wrangling between London and Brussels over metrication.

Pint saved

The commission has kept extending the deadline for the UK to complete the full transition to the metric system, with the most recent deadline being 2010.

This would have meant setting a deadline for ending the traditional delivery of pints of milk - and the sale of pints of beer in the UK's pubs.

Every one of the UK's road signs would have had to be changed from miles to kilometres - a move which opponents warned would be both expensive and confusing.

Steve Thoburn
Steve Thoburn made headlines around the world over his campaign

But it was the move, begun in 2000, to make the UK's market traders sell their produce in kilograms rather than pounds and ounces which caused outrage among traditionalists.

Sunderland grocer Steve Thoburn inspired the "metric martyr" movement with his defiance of the order to abandon the imperial measurements.

In 2001, he was convicted for having weighing scales which had only imperial measurements.

He died unexpectedly from a heart attack three years ago and, while the campaign he founded failed to win traders the right to ignore metric weights altogether, it has brought some results

'No problem'

Under the plans which have now been scrapped, even displaying the price of fruit and vegetables in pounds and ounces would have become grounds for a criminal prosecution.


I want to bring to an end a bitter, bitter battle that has lasted for decades and which in my view is completely pointless
Gunter Verheugen
EU Industry Commissioner

Pounds, pints and the EU

Mr Verheugen's role includes trying to improve the EU's reputation in member states - and in an interview with the BBC, he admitted the EU had been making itself unpopular on an issue that did not really matter.

"I organised a huge consultation, and the result was that industry told us there was no problem with the existing system.

"I want to bring to an end a bitter, bitter battle that has lasted for decades and which in my view is completely pointless. We're bringing this battle to an end."

'Extremely misleading'

However, campaigners on both sides of the debate have played down the significance of the announcement.


HAVE YOUR SAY
The metric system is actually much easier to use then the imperial system
Janet Shaw, Romford, UK

Send us your comments

John Gardner, director of the pro-imperial British Weights and Measures Association, said: "I've seen the European Commission statement and what they're saying is it will be allowed to use imperial measurements as additional information.

"We think that the European Commission statement is extremely misleading. From our point of view the situation hasn't changed and the campaign goes on.

"If a trader tries to conduct his business in just imperial measurements that will be illegal."

'Business as usual'

The UK Metric Association said the statement does not mean that traders can go back to weighing and pricing in imperial measures, and it will be "business as usual".


Mark Mardell
A victory for those who want the decision made by the UK, not the EC
BBC Europe editor Mark Mardell

Read Mark's thoughts in full

Chairman Robin Paice said: "While we regret this proposal to prolong the current muddle of metric and imperial units, it will only delay but not stop the inevitable move toward all-metric shopping.

"Many of the big supermarkets have already stopped giving obsolete imperial prices, and we expect this trend to continue. There is no question of going backwards."

Science and Innovation Minister Ian Pearson said he welcomed the commission's proposal.

"This shows that the commission has listened to our views and recognised the strong arguments that we've made for maintaining dual metric and imperial labelling and the right for the UK to decide on the future use of pints and miles," he said.

"We know how important this is to the British people and are grateful for the commission's support for this use to continue."

The UK first mooted plans to convert to an all-metric system in 1965.

That led to generations of schoolchildren being promised that they would be the last ones who would have to learn two different systems.

 

[bugimike]

Doesn't it just make sense (in order to broaden ones market) to add as much information for potential buyers as you can so that they can understand what they are looking at and buy your product? I mean we wouldn't sell stuff in China with English labeling and vice versa, would we? The narrow view just cannot survive in a global market!

 

[spridgetpwr84]

So i am Confused if the English invented the Metric system why does the MG's Have so many Stanard Bolts on them?

Because they are confused on what system they want to use. I just came from there. Speed limits mph, distance meters, gas litres...

 

[dklawson]

I design machine components in metric units for a living. However, I make design decisions based on "inch" units because that's the unit system used for the raw materials. As far as distances/lengths, I can think both ways. When you get into other engineering units... metric has never been tangible to me. Newtons, Newton-meters, Pascals, and kg/cm^2... I don't work with them enough to know what they really "mean" in the real world.

An acquaintance of mine on another message board has a signature line that is applicable here:
"The metric system is for people who aren't smart enough to handle fractions."

 

[1976Midget]

Doesn't it just make sense (in order to broaden ones market) to add as much information for potential buyers as you can so that they can understand what they are looking at and buy your product? I mean we wouldn't sell stuff in China with English labeling and vice versa, would we? The narrow view just cannot survive in a global market!

Wait i'm confused dont we sell stuff from china with English Labels?? I hope you was Kidding LOL

 

[bugimike]

What I MEANT was...they wouldn't sell us stuff with Chinese labels, weights and measures etc.! I guess it got lost in the translation /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif

 

[PC]

... Forget the French scientist's name who conceived of and formulated the metric system, but remember being instructed about him in high school physics; So unless California textbooks in the early 60's were in error, it was a frenchman's conception. ...

Not so much that the high school textbooks were in error as they tend to present oversimplified versions of events that have long and complex evolutions.

The Frenchman you read about was most likely Antoine Lavoisier. Lavoisier, a renowned scientist (and coincidently a French government official), was the man who spearheaded France’s “metric conversion.”

Lavoisier did not “create” the metric system. He worked with other scientists of his day to sort of “bring it together, iron it out and put it one place.”

That quintessentially metric unit of distance, the meter, was described by English scientist John Wilkins a century before Lavoisier’s time. Some historians believe it came to Lavoisier by way of his good buddy Ben Franklin.

Metric temperature measurements are found in either degrees Celsius or degrees Kelvin. They’re named for the scale’s inventor, Swedish astronomer Anders Celsius and the guy who came up with the idea of the absolute temperature scale, Irish physicist William Thomson, Lord Kelvin.

... remember when Japanese metrics in the early 70's weren't the same as most european metric, they would choose a different thread pitch for a lot of their fasteners...

Which brings up a very important point, the difference between a standard system of measurements (SI in this case) and a standard for a thingamajig (like a bolt).

A standard for a system of measurement simply describes the basic units of measure. The standard for the thingamajig describe the thing itself. The thing itself works the way it works regardless of what units you use to describe it (and some standards are written with both SI and US customary units).

The US and its allies use common ammunition among their military forces. The same ammo standards are also used in civilian firearms. It doesn’t matter whether you call them .223 and .308 or 5.56mm and 7.62mm. They’re the same bullets.

...I still think the Whitworth system is the best as far as providing the best strength of fit.

An excellent standard, not because it’s measured in inches, but because the thread geometric profiles and ratios produce a very strong fastener.


PC.

 

[PC]

Oh, and if anybody still holds their metrification headaches against Lavoisier, you can take some solace in the fact that the French administration rewarded his efforts with a trip to the guillotine.


PC.

 

[Steve]

The French were also the first country to drive on the right........think about that. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif