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engine knock/ping, retard ignition doesn't help

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The noise I hear is almost a "clicking" sound that varies with engine speed.

I took a stethascope to various places on the eninge while it is running and I wasn't really able to find the source of the noise. The noise in the stethascope is about the same at all places of the engine....
 
Clicking sound just might be rockers. Have you adjusted them.
 
Could be a couple of different things. If it were the rockers/valve backlash it would be more prominent on the valve cover. Another thing to consider is the oiling to the valves. Make sure it is adequate or they can be very noisy. Just for a test. Set the valve backlash at the tight end of the spec and see how that effects the noise. Also, it would probably be one that you are hearing and not all of them. Another possibility is that a lifter might have dished out on the bottom where it rides on the cam. That will cause your backlash to change over time and cause it to tick.
Make sure it isn't the water pump or the altenator. Bearings can tick instead of roar sometimes when the cage starts to come apart. You can put the stethescope right on the housing of each to check that. You are narrowing it down. If you think you've ruled everything out, then start over and use different methods to verify your results.
JC
 
I checked the valve backlash at and everything is at 0.010".
I did run the eninge for a very short time w/out the fan belt (to eliminate the noise issue possible coming from the alternator or water pump) to see if the noise was still there, the noise was still pressent.
 
It might be time for an internal inspection. It would be great if there was a club you could contact for help in your area. It is hard to troubleshoot from a BBS. I think we have ruled out most of the usual suspects. I don't like to jump on rod knock or wrist pin slap because it involves so much work to rule it out. Best to rule out the easy stuff first. Dropping the pan will give you acess to the rod bearings and limited ability to check wrist pins. Hopefully someone will come along and have other suggestions. Otherwise, it might be time to look inside. You have to decide to do that. If you do open her up. Make sure you keep it super clean. Also get the car up in the air as high as you can. You'll be working on your back with outstretched arms. So it will be great if you can get in there with a creeper.
If I think of any other possibilites, I'll be sure to post.
JC
 
One easy thing to check: Remove your valve cover. At the back of the valve train (by the heater) there is a large screw in the rear pedestal that holds the rail in place. This screw has a tendency to fall out. If it does, the valve rail can turn such that the oiling holes no longer align, thus the valve rockers will no longer get oil and make a real ruckus.

Another easy thing to check: make sure your engine mounts are whole and thoroughly attached to the engine and the frame. A bad engine mount could make the noise you are describing.
 
Way to go Morris, I totally forgot about checking the engine mounts.
JC
 
check for the screw, it is there and in there tight. But maybe the rail is turned so that the oiling holes are not aligned. Is there a way to check that they are aligned?

The eninge mounts were replaced in the last several months.
 
Double check that everything got tightened up correctly on the engine mounts. Poke your stethoscope down there and see if the noise gets louder.
 
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