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Engine Conversion

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MikeMcD

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A motor head buddy of mine is determined to "upgrade" the engine in my '70 Spitfire. He thinks a rotary would be great. Anyone have any experience with putting newer engines in these cars, rotary or otherwise?
 
Hey, Mike -

I guess my question would be "Why?"

The early Spitfire engines are great, and in particular, your model is one of the more desirable.

If it's a junker, and there's nothing to lose, then I'd say "Go for it!" But there are so few of these left that the early ones should be preserved. Find a later "beater" model and let him cut on that one, if yours is worth saving.

Just my two cents...

Mickey
 
Grassroots Motorsports did a rotary Spit. Their advice to someone considering the swap: "Don't!"
 
There are pictures here, of a rotary conversion in an AH Sprite. The guy that posted those might be helpful to talk to.
 
Aloha Mike,

My wife had a 2004 RX8 with automatic transmission. On the plus side it is a small engine both physical dimensions, weight and displacement wise, 1.3L with about 200 HP. It requires premium fuel, 92/93 octane fuel and about the average mileage was about 17 to 18 MPG. The red line is around 8000 RPM, and it likes to be run at high RPM to avoid carbon fouling. The engine is designed to burn a small amount of oil as part of lubricating the blade seals on the Wankel rotors, so about every 3000 miles you'll need to add a quart of oil. The drawbacks are that it doesn't seem to be a good choice if you do city or stop and go driving which my wife did. Because of the automatic transmission, the engine revs rarely got above 3000 to 3500 RPM and she experienced several engine stalls and hard starting because of carbon fouling. Mazda has with drawn the RX8 from the European market and 2011 will be the year in the North American market. The engine also does not have the low end torque most Triumph engine do, but once you get it spinning up it moves out smartly. I think if you intend to drive the car in situations where you can run it in the 4000 RPM and high for some time you might not have the trouble my wife did.

Here is a link to the RX8 club website:

https://www.rx8club.com/index.php

You can find more opinions there.
 
I am putting a GM 3.1L V6 in my '74 spit. It is bolted to a Borg-Warner T5 tranny. I will be posting some pictures once everything is hooked up to the frame. It has been slow going as I am doing a complete resto at the same time.
Physically it isn't to hard to get the engine in. It does take a lot of knowledge on interchanging various model and years of V6 60 parts, re-wiring everything and programming the ECM to work with them. Not for the faint of heart. Not a quick project.
The car is going to be a summer daily driver not a racer. I have a ton of reasons why I am doing it. Amongst them are "Cuz I can" ,"Cuz it's mine", and "Cuz the MTBF goes up significantly".
There is a ton of info at British v8 - Tim
 
About 20 years ago when I was racing Mazda RX-3s, I had a local guy talk me into installing an early RX-3 motor and 4 speed trans into his 72 Spitfire. The starter mounted on top of the bell housing which made the installation much easier than the later RX-7 which had the starter mount on the side of the bell housing which meant that you had to knotch the frame for starter clearence. The exhaust/muffler was the biggest problem because of the noise from the rotary motor, burned out several big mufflers. Good autocross car but not a good street car, too noisy. Good Luck, Bill C. Mesa, Az.
 
I'm definitely with Mickey on this: stay with what you've got. Assuming it's an original "FE" series 1296, it's one of the nicest of the small Triumph engines made. Also assuming it still has the single Stromberg as stock, you can do a lot with little more than a pair of SU carburetors and the "non-emissions" camshaft. That will get you from just over 60 hp to about 70-75 horsepower. Then spend a little time following some of the many tips folks like Kas Kastner have provided over the years...and have fun getting up into the 80-90hp range, still with a nicely balanced car that won't need much more than top-quality brake linings and good rubber on the ground!
 
MGTF1250Dave said:
Aloha Mike,

I think if you intend to drive the car in situations where you can run it in the 4000 RPM and high for some time you might not have the trouble my wife did.
Click to expand...


Life <span style="font-style: italic">began</span> at 5000 RPM in my RX7!
 
Andrew Mace said:
I'm definitely with Mickey on this: stay with what you've got. Assuming it's an original "FE" series 1296, it's one of the nicest of the small Triumph engines made. Also assuming it still has the single Stromberg as stock, you can do a lot with little more than a pair of SU carburetors and the "non-emissions" camshaft. That will get you from just over 60 hp to about 70-75 horsepower. Then spend a little time following some of the many tips folks like Kas Kastner have provided over the years...and have fun getting up into the 80-90hp range, still with a nicely balanced car that won't need much more than top-quality brake linings and good rubber on the ground!
Click to expand...

I agree with Andy. I tried stuffing a SBC into a Spit. There isn't enough room under the "hood" unless you build a custom chassis. If you don't, it looks stupid IMHO. Rotaries can be cool, but I don't like them. If you want to do a cool/easy swap, then do a Buick/Olds/Rover V-8 into a late model MGB.

Hood clearance is a problem:

1965%20Triumph%20Spitfire%20b.jpg


MilesCrouch-A.jpg
 
IMHO the best conversion engine to put in a Spit is a GM 60 degree V6. The parts are cheap and available. It fits well in the engine bay and can use a dependable, rebuildable, T5 transmission. The T5 also fits well.
SB Chevy's are certainly good engines. In a Spit they are heavy, large, and overpowered.
A 60 degree V6 is 50 pounds lighter than a triumph 2000 6 cylinder and maybe 30 pound heavier than a 1500. You can find engine weights here:
Engine weights
More weight reduction can be had by using a modern gear starter. This starter will bolt onto the engine without modification.
The 60 degree V6 has a nice flat torque/speed curve. It is not "peaky" like some of the four cylinder engines.
The fuel injection system and the ECM are easy to work on and to re-program.
A Vin 9 specification engine (Fiero) is the easiest to fit into a Spit. It has 150 base HP. With a modified oil pan it can stradle the steering rack and use the original mount locations. The overall height installed is approximatly 1" higher than the Triumph 1500.
The CG location and car "Balance" are very close to the original engine and transmission.
The engine can be converted to use the GM DIS ignition system. This avoids having to cut the firewall to make room for the distributer.
- Tim
 
Go back a little further. The 60 degree Ford V6 2.6 liters in 1972 and 1973, 2.8 liters after that. No ECM, no computer, compact, light weight, bolts up to a Ford Type 9 5-speed. Performance parts still available. You can do this without making a monstrosity. Double the displacement. More than double the horsepower. Any mod to the hood can be very subtle.

Ernie
1970 Spitfire MK III
2.6 Ford V6, 5-speed
 
Can't recall his name but a guy in LA had a rotary powered Herald he was quite pleased with. He moved to the east coast a year or so ago so I don't see him at club events anymore. Rotaries are light and the center of gravity is low in them. Rotaries are loud but that problem can be solved with a muffler from racing beat or someone other rotary specialist. Mufflers from a reciprocating motor can't stand the heat and eventually fail. Low end torque is a bit of a prob, you need to get them "up on the pipe". In high school (late 70's), I had an ex-SCCA RX2 with big tires and sometimes you needed to fan the clutch to get it rolling in a hurry. Once you got it rolling it would pick up it's skirt and go. If you want to go extreme and really want a low weight/high horsepower combo for somewhat reasonable $$, go with a 410ci V8 Mopar sprint car motor. 220lbs and 900bhp (normally aspirated on methanol) out of the box.
 
shining_armor said:
Go back a little further. The 60 degree Ford V6 2.6 liters in 1972 and 1973, 2.8 liters after that. No ECM, no computer, compact, light weight, bolts up to a Ford Type 9 5-speed. Performance parts still available. You can do this without making a monstrosity. Double the displacement. More than double the horsepower. Any mod to the hood can be very subtle.

Ernie
1970 Spitfire MK III
2.6 Ford V6, 5-speed
Click to expand...

Problem is these engines are now tough to find. They also are good for Alpines.

IIRC, they had issues with cylinder heads cracking too.
 
Twosheds said:
Grassroots Motorsports did a rotary Spit. Their advice to someone considering the swap: "Don't!"
Click to expand...

I believe GRM had over $25,000 in their Ro-spit. They got a serious case of shipwrights disease though. It should be do-able for alot less. One problem is the rear diffential has to be changed out too as its too weak.
 
Actually there are 2 Ford 2.8 V6 engines on ebay right now. The 2.6 engines are getting tough to find, but the 2.8 engines are still plentiful. They were made for quite a few years and put in many vehicles (Capris, Pintos, Bobcats, Mustang IIs, among others). I've never heard of cracked heads being an issue on this engine. Mine is a '72 2.6 owned from new, with 65-70K miles.

Ernie
 
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