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Jedi Knight
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I believe it's right below the exhaust manifold more to the back of the motor.
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Electric Fan Question
- Thread starter jerrybny
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Simon TR4a
Jedi Knight
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Hi Jerry, I now have the Hayden 14 inch fan and use the pusher configuration, (used to use a 12 inch with no problem) without the stock fan. My oil cooler is mounted immediately behind the radiator.
I noticed when I mounted the fan that the instructions stated the fan was in "push" mode as delivered, and showed how to reverse the blades if you wanted to mount it in the "pull" mode; implying push was the standard setting.
Though it may not be best for airflow,I mounted the oil cooler behind the rad because I don't have to cut away parts of the rad shroud to route the oil pipes, and I am reluctant to get into reengineering the spacer attached to the crank to make room for the fan in pull mode just because the simpler things are the better!
I did not have a specific cooling problem but have a fairly highly tuned motor, and more power means more heat, so I replaced the radiator core with a higher density core as well.
As Martx 5 stated, the time you need the fan most is in heavy traffic, when a mechanical fan is doing the least, and vice versa. I think my comments would apply to your TR6 as much as to my TR4, though I haven't owned a 6 in 10 years, so some minor points may not apply.
Good luck, Simon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/canpatriot.GIF
I noticed when I mounted the fan that the instructions stated the fan was in "push" mode as delivered, and showed how to reverse the blades if you wanted to mount it in the "pull" mode; implying push was the standard setting.
Though it may not be best for airflow,I mounted the oil cooler behind the rad because I don't have to cut away parts of the rad shroud to route the oil pipes, and I am reluctant to get into reengineering the spacer attached to the crank to make room for the fan in pull mode just because the simpler things are the better!
I did not have a specific cooling problem but have a fairly highly tuned motor, and more power means more heat, so I replaced the radiator core with a higher density core as well.
As Martx 5 stated, the time you need the fan most is in heavy traffic, when a mechanical fan is doing the least, and vice versa. I think my comments would apply to your TR6 as much as to my TR4, though I haven't owned a 6 in 10 years, so some minor points may not apply.
Good luck, Simon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/canpatriot.GIF
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[ QUOTE ]
No Andrew I didn't open the drain on the engine block. To be honest I didn't think of that and I'm not even sure where it is located.
[/ QUOTE ]Ahhh....look on the RH side of the engine, towards the rear of the block. There should be either a petcock of some sort or a largish brass hex head. That's it. Again, if it's a petcock, don't just open it; remove it and probe around with that stiff wire or small screwdriver. Odds are you'll be amazed at a: what comes out; b: how flushing water will gush out when you do that; and c: how much cooler the engine will run thereafter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
No Andrew I didn't open the drain on the engine block. To be honest I didn't think of that and I'm not even sure where it is located.
[/ QUOTE ]Ahhh....look on the RH side of the engine, towards the rear of the block. There should be either a petcock of some sort or a largish brass hex head. That's it. Again, if it's a petcock, don't just open it; remove it and probe around with that stiff wire or small screwdriver. Odds are you'll be amazed at a: what comes out; b: how flushing water will gush out when you do that; and c: how much cooler the engine will run thereafter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Geo Hahn
Yoda
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
...did you probe around in the drain hole? Even if you get a reasonable flow out of that drain hole, I can virtually guarantee that some probing with a stiff wire or small screwdriver will loosen up lots and lots of crud...
[/ QUOTE ]
Too right. When I recently had the head off the TR3 I rigged up a long thin tube to a shop-vac to suck around the liners. #4 in particular seemed to have some loose crud down there. Of course this TR liposuction may not be practical on a TR6.
...did you probe around in the drain hole? Even if you get a reasonable flow out of that drain hole, I can virtually guarantee that some probing with a stiff wire or small screwdriver will loosen up lots and lots of crud...
[/ QUOTE ]
Too right. When I recently had the head off the TR3 I rigged up a long thin tube to a shop-vac to suck around the liners. #4 in particular seemed to have some loose crud down there. Of course this TR liposuction may not be practical on a TR6.
G
Guest
Guest
Guest
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[/ QUOTE ]
Of course this TR liposuction may not be practical on a TR6.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, we tend to use Botox more than not....
Bill
Of course this TR liposuction may not be practical on a TR6.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, we tend to use Botox more than not....
Bill
Offline
A lot of great advice already. I'd lean in favor of checking timing, fuel mixture and other adjustments before doing anything too radical. Put the static timing right on the BDTC spec and don't retard--at least yet. Be sure you're not running too lean on fuel. Of course be sure you're not getting any combustion in the cooling water--which in my experience is unlikely except for a blown head gasket. And, just the conservative type I am, I'd also lean in favor of a pusher fan. I'd just want the stock equipment to stay where it is. If you're worried about your radiator, any shop will have a temperature gun, and they can tell you in seconds if the radiator exiting water is cooler than the intake water. In the dead heat of summer, mine exited at 165 and entered at 190, so the shop said my radiator was fine.
About water pumps, I'm not aware of any propensity for them to be defective, but I'd sure be interested in more information about upgraded ones. I tried the Web Site given for "British Frame and Engine," and the email link was no longer valid.
Best of luck. Happy Holidays.
About water pumps, I'm not aware of any propensity for them to be defective, but I'd sure be interested in more information about upgraded ones. I tried the Web Site given for "British Frame and Engine," and the email link was no longer valid.
Best of luck. Happy Holidays.
Geo Hahn
Yoda
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
...any shop will have a temperature gun, and they can tell you in seconds if the radiator exiting water is cooler than the intake water. In the dead heat of summer, mine exited at 165 and entered at 190, so the shop said my radiator was fine...
[/ QUOTE ]
What a great thing to check. I'm always looking for new places to aim my infrared temp sensor. I may bring it along on a club run and check lots of radiators.
...any shop will have a temperature gun, and they can tell you in seconds if the radiator exiting water is cooler than the intake water. In the dead heat of summer, mine exited at 165 and entered at 190, so the shop said my radiator was fine...
[/ QUOTE ]
What a great thing to check. I'm always looking for new places to aim my infrared temp sensor. I may bring it along on a club run and check lots of radiators.
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
A lot of great advice already. I'd lean in favor of checking timing, fuel mixture and other adjustments before doing anything too radical. Put the static timing right on the BDTC spec and don't retard--at least yet. Be sure you're not running too lean on fuel. Of course be sure you're not getting any combustion in the cooling water--which in my experience is unlikely except for a blown head gasket.
[/ QUOTE ]
All good advice...
[ QUOTE ]
If you're worried about your radiator, any shop will have a temperature gun, and they can tell you in seconds if the radiator exiting water is cooler than the intake water. In the dead heat of summer, mine exited at 165 and entered at 190, so the shop said my radiator was fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great idea, even better if you can get Geo to do it for free!
[ QUOTE ]
About water pumps, I'm not aware of any propensity for them to be defective, but I'd sure be interested in more information about upgraded ones.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've seen a few water pumps with smaller than usual or slightly angled impellor blades that seem to cause problems. Most often, these seem to be on the ones with the pressed on front pulley (the type that aren't rebuildable).
The main issue with many of the traditional, bolt-on pulley type is not actually the water pump, but the modern crop of available pulleys. A lot tend to rub the water pump housing, whether it be a new repro or a rebuilt original. A lot of folks have had to grind away a bit on the pump housing or on the inside of the pulley, to correct for this.
[ QUOTE ]
I tried the Web Site given for "British Frame and Engine," and the email link was no longer valid.
[/ QUOTE ]
I checked my address book and there is a problem with that link. As shown on the website, it's correct (bfeken@copper.net). When you click the link it inserts "bfeken@copper.com " into your email address line, which is incorrect. Just change .com to .net and Ken's email works fine, or just click here bfeken@copper.net. BTW, Ken is often not around to respond immediately on race weekends. He's not driving any more, but is often "wrenching".
One other thing about the water pump...
The last one I got from Ken I asked him about the seals. They are modern type, which require no break-in.
Original TR4 pumps had a ceramic seal that needed to be run dry for 30-60 seconds at first use, to properly seat the seal. If this wasn't done, i.e. the coolant was fully topped up before breaking in the seal and it ran in coolant right from the beginning, a pump would often seep a little coolant right from new and wouldn't last as long. Broken in right, this original seal worked well.
This break-in procedure is shown in the service manual. But, it *should not* be done with any pump that has modern seals, as Ken assured me the high performance pump he sells does.
I mention this because - at least with TR4/4A - it's important to ask which seal is used in any pump you purchase and follow the seller's break-in procedure, if needed. Brand new pumps are likely to have a modern seal. Re-built pumps might have the original type.
I'm not certain if this issue applies to TR6, though. Anyone know?
Happy holidays!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
A lot of great advice already. I'd lean in favor of checking timing, fuel mixture and other adjustments before doing anything too radical. Put the static timing right on the BDTC spec and don't retard--at least yet. Be sure you're not running too lean on fuel. Of course be sure you're not getting any combustion in the cooling water--which in my experience is unlikely except for a blown head gasket.
[/ QUOTE ]
All good advice...
[ QUOTE ]
If you're worried about your radiator, any shop will have a temperature gun, and they can tell you in seconds if the radiator exiting water is cooler than the intake water. In the dead heat of summer, mine exited at 165 and entered at 190, so the shop said my radiator was fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great idea, even better if you can get Geo to do it for free!
[ QUOTE ]
About water pumps, I'm not aware of any propensity for them to be defective, but I'd sure be interested in more information about upgraded ones.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've seen a few water pumps with smaller than usual or slightly angled impellor blades that seem to cause problems. Most often, these seem to be on the ones with the pressed on front pulley (the type that aren't rebuildable).
The main issue with many of the traditional, bolt-on pulley type is not actually the water pump, but the modern crop of available pulleys. A lot tend to rub the water pump housing, whether it be a new repro or a rebuilt original. A lot of folks have had to grind away a bit on the pump housing or on the inside of the pulley, to correct for this.
[ QUOTE ]
I tried the Web Site given for "British Frame and Engine," and the email link was no longer valid.
[/ QUOTE ]
I checked my address book and there is a problem with that link. As shown on the website, it's correct (bfeken@copper.net). When you click the link it inserts "bfeken@copper.com " into your email address line, which is incorrect. Just change .com to .net and Ken's email works fine, or just click here bfeken@copper.net. BTW, Ken is often not around to respond immediately on race weekends. He's not driving any more, but is often "wrenching".
One other thing about the water pump...
The last one I got from Ken I asked him about the seals. They are modern type, which require no break-in.
Original TR4 pumps had a ceramic seal that needed to be run dry for 30-60 seconds at first use, to properly seat the seal. If this wasn't done, i.e. the coolant was fully topped up before breaking in the seal and it ran in coolant right from the beginning, a pump would often seep a little coolant right from new and wouldn't last as long. Broken in right, this original seal worked well.
This break-in procedure is shown in the service manual. But, it *should not* be done with any pump that has modern seals, as Ken assured me the high performance pump he sells does.
I mention this because - at least with TR4/4A - it's important to ask which seal is used in any pump you purchase and follow the seller's break-in procedure, if needed. Brand new pumps are likely to have a modern seal. Re-built pumps might have the original type.
I'm not certain if this issue applies to TR6, though. Anyone know?
Happy holidays!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
Offline
[ QUOTE ]
OK I removed the block drain plug. Nothing came out. In fact I tried probing it and it seems like its blocked. Anyone know how far I should be able to push a probe in. Is it possible that its severely plugged with harden crap?
[/ QUOTE ] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Yes, not only possible but very likely. Goodness knows, if it's that plugged up, how long it's been since someone did this.
Your probe should go in probably at least an inch or two, and there should be a bit of room to move it about as well. Keep at it; you'll get through the crud eventually! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
OK I removed the block drain plug. Nothing came out. In fact I tried probing it and it seems like its blocked. Anyone know how far I should be able to push a probe in. Is it possible that its severely plugged with harden crap?
[/ QUOTE ] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Yes, not only possible but very likely. Goodness knows, if it's that plugged up, how long it's been since someone did this.
Your probe should go in probably at least an inch or two, and there should be a bit of room to move it about as well. Keep at it; you'll get through the crud eventually! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
Well, here's my two cents worth as well. When I took my engine apart to rebuild and pulled out the liners, I was amazed at the amount of what looked like rust and sand that was packed all around the bottom and up the sides of the #4 cylinder! I assume that since that's the farthest point from the pump, the junk just settles out there.
On a couple of other notes...the guy I bought the car from put on a new radiator cap that he got from Pep Boys, but it didn't fit right. The depth of the housing that the radiator cap screws into is quite a bit deeper than modern cars. The "modern" cap sealed at the top, but it never sealed along the bottom, so the system was never pressurized -- it simply leaked out the overflow tube.
I've also been told that a "puller" electric fan is 20% more efficient that a "pusher". Before the rebuild, even with a "pusher" and an OEM fan on the TR3, I still had problems overheating.
I am in the process of converting the electric fan to a "puller" and installing the harmonic balancer (oh yeah, and the Webers too!!!!) so I will let you know how this works out. Even though it's not summer, it still gets up in the high 70s down here.
The other problem is, I may not have the most accurate gauge and/or sending unit. When the gauge has shown 3/4 hot, I've checked the sending unit, thermostat housing and the top of the radiator and all the individual cores with a pyrometer and it all reads about 160 to 170.
Just some more information to confuse you a little more...
On a couple of other notes...the guy I bought the car from put on a new radiator cap that he got from Pep Boys, but it didn't fit right. The depth of the housing that the radiator cap screws into is quite a bit deeper than modern cars. The "modern" cap sealed at the top, but it never sealed along the bottom, so the system was never pressurized -- it simply leaked out the overflow tube.
I've also been told that a "puller" electric fan is 20% more efficient that a "pusher". Before the rebuild, even with a "pusher" and an OEM fan on the TR3, I still had problems overheating.
I am in the process of converting the electric fan to a "puller" and installing the harmonic balancer (oh yeah, and the Webers too!!!!) so I will let you know how this works out. Even though it's not summer, it still gets up in the high 70s down here.
The other problem is, I may not have the most accurate gauge and/or sending unit. When the gauge has shown 3/4 hot, I've checked the sending unit, thermostat housing and the top of the radiator and all the individual cores with a pyrometer and it all reads about 160 to 170.
Just some more information to confuse you a little more...
I put my hayden fan in as a pusher because it freed up some room in the engine bay. Seems to work just fine. I can tell when it comes on by the Amp gauge. IN the winter it hardly comes on and but frequently when in traffic in summer as expected. I feel more power and I'm getting 24 to 30 mpg (US). THAT is the improvement I like. Cruising at 65-70 mph I'm getting 30+ mpg and that fan never comes on.