TR2/3/3A Door fitting- graduate level

[Jim_Stevens]

Great, another door fitting question you say?
Ok, the doors fit fine pre-painting, all hinged up:

They also fit fine now after painting, just like shown above, BUT only when held in place, door latched, with the hinges laying flat and NOT screwed into the A-post.
When the hinges ARE screwed in, the aft edge of the outer wing interferes with the door such that it can’t be closed and paint touches paint at the front door upper edge. The outer wing is firmly bolted into the A-post with a no-gap fit.
I don’t see how shimming the body would help, since I have nice even gaps all around the door. Might this be a time to shim the hinges? I did just check- the repro hinges are the same thickness as the originals. The body was removed from the chassis for painting, and one could reasonably assume the same shims were used post-painting, but the body shop did that and they are out on CV19 lockdown.
What say ye? Shim the hinges? Jim

TS44744L”O”

 

[Graham H]

I made all those adjustments before painting mainly by bending the hinge mountings in the doors by dollying them forward trial fit umpteen times until happy with end result, but after painting you could look at shims.

Graham

 

[CJD]

A pic of the bolted door would help. I think you are saying that the when you tighten the hinge the door moves forward? Or, are you saying it moves forward as the door pivots open?

 

[charleyf]

Jim,
One other option is to try readjusting the front fender. You only need a very small movement of the fender to allow the door to clear. The movement would likely be to try to pull the fender out.

 

[Jim_Stevens]

I’ll try pull the fender out...
what is happening is that you need to have the door open to screw in the hinges, right? And when I do, the top part of the door sits in too far to clear the valence without making contact. I’ll take a picture on my next try! As always, thanks!

 

[DavidApp]

I did have to adjust the number of shims between pre painting and post painting.

It seems that every time you remove and reinstall the doors things are slightly different.

David

 

[charleyf]

I agree with David. I am still in the pre-paint stage and have put on and taken off the doors well over a dozen times. One thing that I have noticed is that there is a very small bit of variance in what we think of as the fixed position of the hinges to the doors. In this I mean that when you go to tighten down the hinge screws you can often times move the door a very little bit prior to the final tightening of the screws. I have noted that this small movement is enough to make things fit or not fit. Logic says that there should not be a variance in the final position with the screws tightened down. But there is. When you think about the ability to move the door in or out and up or down it might be just enough to get you to the sweet spot. From there you can look at shims to move the door back or change the angle of the door.

 

[DavidApp]

Also the build up of paint on the hinges, "A" post and door will make some difference. I think I remember grinding the paint off the hinge faces to get a good fit. It was a trying time as I was worried I would damage the paint each time the door came off or was reinstalled.

David

 

[sp53]

A couple of things come to mind. Sounds like you could get some thin stainless steel washers put them between the post and the hinge on the back. Maybe fender size washers or smaller depending on where you put them on the post and hinge and I suggest 5/16, so they can move some. If the tub was off the body, then the gap could be a shim on the inner area problem. Are the A and B post parallel?
steve

 

[Jim_Stevens]

Update: Holding the door in place, I can see quite a gap between the hinge and the A post. I have some 2” flat bar stock that may be the right thickness that I can drill out to make a shim... I can do that during a coffee break while I’m here stuck at home working.
10-hours per door indeed! Jim

 

[Graham H]

Jim, your photo shows the door not yet final painted so you could try to bend the frame hinge mounts to take up the gap.You may find the area where the hinges mounted to the door is bent in so if you use a suitable drift inside the door and give it a wack both top and bottom and refit it won't take much , if you go too far just tap it back a bit and try again

Graham

 

[CJD]

Like Graham says, the hinges can be spread at your stage in the build. The brass hinges are a bit easier than the steel, but both are bendable.

 

[Jim_Stevens]

Like Graham says, the hinges can be spread at your stage in the build. The brass hinges are a bit easier than the steel, but both are bendable.

John, in the another forum, you said that adding packing to the outrigger wouldn’t affect the top door gap.
I added 1/16” shims to the top and bottom hinges to move the door aft. Better, but still can’t get the door to close due to the top door edge striking the fender.
Seems to me “in theory” that adding more packing especially on the front outrigger will cause the body to hog (as a wooden ship) thereby fixing the issue. There’s no packing in there now.
Thoughts? Jim

 

[Jim_Stevens]

By the way, the car is completely painted.

 

[CJD]

By the way, the car is completely painted.

Important safety tip!

I remember having the same issue on my driver's door. I had done welding to the edge of the scuttle and front fender, and it turned out my edges were thicker than normal. I had to thin the thickness of the fender and scuttle weld beads. This gave room for the door edge to pivot behind the forward and top edges. I also rounded the edges of the gap there...again to provide room for the door to open. Could this be your issue? If you take some of the thickness from the back of the edges you could then use touch up paint on a brush to re-cover them...they do not show from any normal view of the car.

The other option is to adjust the door panel a slight bit inward. Again, the goal is to give your door edge room to rotate behind the scuttle edge as it opens.

As I sit here, I think I might have even had to open up my forward gap slightly to allow the door to open properly. Of course this is not an option on a painted door. It seems like I remember a single point on the upper edge of th door that becomes the "critical" point in forcing the amount of clearance for the gap. In your case moving the door back and downward as far as practical would help.

 

[sp53]

2 things I would look at are; is the fender all the way forward on the A post at the top? Can you put a feeler gauge in that spot? If so, then the fender can go forward. Another option would be to bend the actual hinge outer flap out and down so the door moves how you want it. You might have to bend both. Some people pound in the door at the hinge, but I like bending the hinges. I learned it from an old cabinet maker. I do not understand when you say there is no packing. You mean there are no shims on the outriggers? If that is the case you need 4 on each outrigger.
steve

 

[Jim_Stevens]

Success!
I put another shim 1/8” this time on the hinge on the door side and that did the trick.


So, that was two 1/16” shims on the A-post side and this 1/8” on the door side top hinge. Now, onto the passenger door forearmed with this experience and y’all’s expertise! Once we shim that one, doors off and I’ll take all the shims to be powder coated body color.
I think I can still reach my goal of Father's Day on the road, although the show at which I had wanted to show it has probably been scrubbed.
Thanks all again— Jim

TS44743L “O”

 

[sp53]

Beautiful looking job, Steve

 

[tallguylittlecar]

Just an observation, I was just out working on color sanding and buffing the shell, which is why I noticed this--it looks like you are missings the holes on your quarter panels for the tonneau studs. Someone correct me if I am wrong, could just be the picture and the white color is hiding it. Doors look great.

 

[charleyf]

Jim,
if you powder coat the whole shim, you will be adding two layers of paint thickness to the shim. You really only want the edges painted of those slims.
That tonneau stud that appears missing I believe is a bolt with nut. So needs to go in before the interior panel.