"Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

[NutmegCT]

"Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

<span style="font-style: italic">"Correspondence" column in the UK magazine The Autocar, August 2, 1957</span>

"Selling in America - Don't Ape Detroit."

"Why do the English car manufacturers try so hard to ape the Detroit models we have? If we want something like that we can get it here. When the British begin putting fins on their cars, take the stick shift away and add automatic transmissions, we will simply quit buying. And don't think that is not a big complaint.

"A very careful survey has revealed that the majority of foreign car buyers want stick shifts - not column. We want to use the gears in the best manner; we do not want model changes every year; we want gas economy.

"England, wake up! You want to sell foreign, so be foreign. Make your cars for the people's wants, not in a desire to copy - to continue will mean the loss of the market.

Glenn M. Ortmayer
Charles City, Iowa, USA
(August 1957)

 

[anthony7777]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

nutmeg, for the life of me i cant understand why our own car companies dont make standard shift available on more models, seems they are insisting on making the driving experience less interactive, more effortless and mondaine every year, what they should be doing is giving classes on how to drive a 6 speed stick shift while dialing your cell phone!, now that would make driving a great deal more interesting.

 

[JPSmit]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

nutmeg, for the life of me i cant understand why our own car companies dont make standard shift available on more models, seems they are insisting on making the driving experience less interactive, more effortless and mondaine every year, what they should be doing is giving classes on how to drive a 6 speed stick shift while dialing your cell phone!, now that would make driving a great deal more interesting.

I agree about the 6 - speed cell phone stuff, though it is astonishing how many times I pass a distracted driver and can see both hands - one on cell phone other with coffee or food or pen or....

In terms of stick, I seem to recall reading that only 18% of people under 25 can drive standard - Every car we own is standard and, other than the hobby cars we will likely go automatic the next time. My wife hates - Hates! - being stuck in rush hour traffic 1 1/2 hours a day with a standard and I can't blame her. Same with mine - I tend to drive more on open roads, but there isn't a lot less interactive than an Interstate (or a 400 hiway here in Canada) all you can do is set the cruise, turn up the stereo and wait till you get there.

 

[anthony7777]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

jpsmit, ive written/talked about this subject for many years, if an idividual wants to maintain ones drivers license the d.m.v. should request/insist that any person over the age of 60 be strapped in a nascar,formula one car,drag racer,etc. with several hundred of those in the same age group and be forced to drive in races untill the last man/woman survives, that person would be allowed to keep thier license for two or three more years, ahhh! ill be 60 years old on may 12th. ive been told i should have years ago been one of the first to surrender said document.

 

[Sherlock]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

nutmeg, for the life of me i cant understand why our own car companies dont make standard shift available on more models, seems they are insisting on making the driving experience less interactive, more effortless and mondaine every year, what they should be doing is giving classes on how to drive a 6 speed stick shift while dialing your cell phone!, now that would make driving a great deal more interesting.

I agree about the 6 - speed cell phone stuff, though it is astonishing how many times I pass a distracted driver and can see both hands - one on cell phone other with coffee or food or pen or....

In terms of stick, I seem to recall reading that only 18% of people under 25 can drive standard - Every car we own is standard and, other than the hobby cars we will likely go automatic the next time. My wife hates - Hates! - being stuck in rush hour traffic 1 1/2 hours a day with a standard and I can't blame her. Same with mine - I tend to drive more on open roads, but there isn't a lot less interactive than an Interstate (or a 400 hiway here in Canada) all you can do is set the cruise, turn up the stereo and wait till you get there.

Yeah... Stick shift driving is becoming a dying art here in North America, I've heard that only about 5% of new vehicles sold have a stick shift (perhaps less even)

I contend that driving stick shift makes one a better driver, because it forces you to think while driving... I've owned four cars and only one was an automatic, yet interestingly enough the most common reason I've heard for owning an automatic is people saying that it's too much work to drive it... Doesn't driving require work and paying attention? Which a stick shift forces a driver into...

Anyway, after owning the automatic car for three years I knew my next car had to be a stick shift! And for the record most of my work commute is in light driving conditions, fortunately... If all my commute was in stop-and-go I might opt for an automatic but then only a cheap one for the work commute... :hammer:

 

[JPSmit]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

If all my commute was in stop-and-go I might opt for an automatic but then only a cheap one for the work commute... :hammer:

which of course is the point there is a difference between a car and transportation. My wife needs transportation.

 

[JPSmit]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

jpsmit, ive written/talked about this subject for many years, if an idividual wants to maintain ones drivers license the d.m.v. should request/insist that any person over the age of 60 be strapped in a nascar,formula one car,drag racer,etc. with several hundred of those in the same age group and be forced to drive in races untill the last man/woman survives, that person would be allowed to keep thier license for two or three more years, ahhh! ill be 60 years old on may 12th. ive been told i should have years ago been one of the first to surrender said document.

can we shoot at you while you race?

 

[drooartz]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

Yeah... Stick shift driving is becoming a dying art here in North America, I've heard that only about 5% of new vehicles sold have a stick shift (perhaps less even)

They sell what people want, and most folks here in the USA want an automatic. My wife actively refuses to learn to shift (and I'm wise enough not to push the issue).

I had to drive 300 miles to find my Honda Fit two years ago, as I specifically wanted one with a stick. There wasn't one any closer to me to be had anywhere.

 

[Sarastro]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

nutmeg, for the life of me i cant understand why our own car companies dont make standard shift available on more models, seems they are insisting on making the driving experience less interactive, more effortless and mondaine every year, what they should be doing is giving classes on how to drive a 6 speed stick shift while dialing your cell phone!, now that would make driving a great deal more interesting.

This is precisely why I'm not interested in modern cars. I can't think of one that I'd really want to have--the Mazda Miata MX5 comes closest, and I think I'd rather have an older one of those. Toyota MR2 Spyder is up there too, but they're not made any more. Go figure.

The problem is really worse than this. The great majority of American drivers don't even know what manual transmissions are (or, more correctly, were), let alone how to work one. I have a Smart, which has an automatically shifted manual transmission (you can shift it manually, too, but no clutch), and it has been criticized severely in the automotive press, as people don't like the pause between gears. It's really no different from a manual transmission, though, and you quickly learn how to finesse it so it's no problem. But, it doesn't behave like a conventional automatic, so it's viewed as just a bad automatic transmission. You'd think that anyone allowed to write an auto review would understand the issue, and you'd be wrong.

I'd love to see a resurgence of manual transmission use in the US; for one thing, it would reduce fuel use, air pollution, and carbon emissions. But I'm not holding my breath waiting.

 

[JPSmit]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

Not wanting to be contrary but the autobox on the Mazda gets better mileage than the stick - mostly because it is a 6 speed (I still like the stick)

One thing for sure, when my daughter learns to drive, (neither of my kids drive yet - go figure) when she learns, she WILL learn stick as she will never be stuck unable to drive a car. My son already knows how but I think it is more imprtnat for her.

BTW the added bonus for a standard car for college kids is that no one can borrow it.

 

[MikeP]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

But you know, declining stick usage in the overall population has one good point. Make our cars less likely to be stolen if more and more thieves can't drive them. I actually did see that in an article once, that standard versions of most cars and trucks get stolen at much lower rates.

 

[NutmegCT]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

Back when I first got my TR3 into road-worthy condition, I took it up to the museum where I volunteer. One of the younger guys (about 25) asked if he could drive it.

I told him "take it slow at first; this car doesn't have power steering or power brakes"

The young guy said "what's power steering and power brakes?"

I imagine it's like growing up in an affluent family: You assume everyone has lots of toys and food, and goes yachting every summer weekend, and skiing every winter weekend. Gee - isn't that what everyone does?

T.

 

[Brooklands]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

The last "American" car I bought was a Ford Contour SVT in 1998. It had a very nice manual tranny that I really enjoyed, but that car was sold a few years back. Now all the cars are Japanese (Subaru Forester and Acura TSX) and British (TR3B and Mini Cooper Clubman). Some day I may find an American car I want again.

 

[JPSmit]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

But you know, declining stick usage in the overall population has one good point. Make our cars less likely to be stolen if more and more thieves can't drive them. I actually did see that in an article once, that standard versions of most cars and trucks get stolen at much lower rates.

the side benefit is that standard cars - used - seem to be cheaper.

 

[anthony7777]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

jpsmit,

can we shoot at you while you race?

ill have to think that one over only cuz on may 12th ill be 60...

 

[DrEntropy]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

For years I've been an advocate for more stringent drivers' license requirements, much like the German model. Change a tire, demonstrate how to check tire pressure, oil level, coolant, etc. Also some REAL car handling techniques like skid control, rapid braking, crash avoidance...

Snowball's chance in Hades anything LIKE it would ever be enacted/enforced, tho. :frown:
A license to drive here seems to be considered a rite of passage or a "right" of citizenship. Appalling.

...and my fervent desire is to see ALL automatic transmissions and ALL air conditioning made illegal in the state of Florida. That'd thin down th' population density in an eyeblink...
Buick piloting Q-tips would be the first to disappear. :laugh:

But as my lovely Italian grandma would say: "Fatta chance-a!"

 

[JPSmit]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

But as my lovely Italian grandma would say: "Fatta chance-a!

as she was driving her Buick?

 

[DNK]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

Naw this is what she drove

 

[anthony7777]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

But as my lovely Italian grandma would say: "Fatta chance-a!

as she was driving her Buick?

thinking about docs comment i realised that none of the woman in my family drove a car, not my great grandmother, either of my two grandmothers, my mom nor here two sisters,or any of my dads sisters, wow the world was a much safer place.

 

[DrEntropy]

Re: "Don't Ape Detroit" 1957

Neither of the grandmothers drove a car, me mum was the first of the woman drivers in her family. Her two year younger sister didn't/doesn't drive, the youngest does. They all learned in standard transmission cars, the "middle" sister just didn't have the interest/confidence to get a license. I could never figure that out but I guess she felt it'd be safer if she wasn't out on the highway. :wink:

Her husband bought her a Henry-J but she wouldn't drive it, so he sold that and got her a Hillman. Same thing. Sheesh. All three of her daughters (my generation) were driving asap.