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Do seatbelts increase safety?

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I have personal experience of a dead man being unbelted. A friend hit a horse at 65mph in his Firebird. He was wearing a 5-point and snapped his neck when the carcass landed in the cockpit. His passenger (shoulder and lap belt) surrvived as he was able to squirm to the side and let the horse land on his back/side.
On the other hand (unique circumstance but I saw all those driver's ed films too), a family in a minivan recently had a blowout here (northern NV). All but one person was unbelted and all unbelted persons were thrown from the vehicle as is tumbled down the highway. Mother lost third trimester baby and remainder of passengers were very lucky to be in hospital (critical except toddler in baby seat... not strapped to car... found embedded in windshield) and not morgue.

Bad

Insofar as the car landing on youin a roll? The center of gravity is such that in a real roll the top of the car never gets close to the ground. At the very end there is still a less than 25% chance that it will end up on the top. Besides, MG touted the windshild surround as a roll-bar so it must have some strength.

Wear the thing, please?

Mike!
 
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I have a roll bar like bret and like just about anyone who has a roll bar in an MGB.

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Point of order Adam.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif I never mentioned or asserted that the rollbar in my 78B is anything other than cosmetic. While, I do have it anchored with the aforementioned 16 bolts using the 1/3” steal back plates. Should I ever roll my MG I figure I’d be dead seatbelts or not.

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I would rather be thrown form an MGB at 60+mph than be in a roll over going that fast.

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Hey Adam, I’d like to think I speak for all of us when I say that – we all like ya and don’t want to see you get hurt. That’s is the only reason we’re making a big deal out of this noting more. But you’re an adult and we’ve all presented you with the facts on the issue. So if you still feel that you want to take you’re chances - then go ahead. Your choice.

But remember not wearing a seatbelt is still against the law no matter how you or I feel about it. So regardless you can’t get too upset when a cop pulls you over and sites you for not wearing it. I just hope that’s the least you have to worry about.
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Adam: Two things. How big is the attachment plate? Also, It will do more than no roll bar would. Not sure whether it will indeed stand up, but it certainly doesn't hurt. Perhaps reinforcement is in order to make it safer? Better to have more safety than less, and no roll bar is clearly less.
 
I wear my seatbelts all the time even driving two houses down. But If the car did happen to roll over I would be straped in and I would probably be crushed. The aluminum windshild frame won't do much I don't think, but if i had an option to release my seatbelt if I knew I was aobut to roll over I would in a heart beat.
 
Bolted in properly it WILL hold. Backing plates work. But it must be done professionally. It is not just bolts through sheet metal. There are backing plates under the car which dramatically increase the support. If you still don't want to believe it then there is not a race car around that has roll bars that work. I am not talking about 200 mph plus Nascar cars. etc. I am talking about similar cars to yours such as in vintage racing.


And I can not express it enough that one uses the odds. The odds of rolling are far less than hitting something. And having a horse go through a windshield and driver killed because of a type of belt is almost a one off case. I would never stop wearing any system of belts because 1 out of 10,000 accidents killed someone because of a certain type of belt when 9999 were saved.
 
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Nascar uses an actual roll cage and it doen't just bolt to sheet metal by the way. Roll bars should be bolted or welded to a strong structual piece of the car.

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Please read my post again. I said not Nascar and I said not just to sheet metal. Backing plates baking plates backing plates. Big backing plates. Huge backing plates. Anyhow it does work as can be attested by thousands of vintage car racers. Backing plates can be welded to frame or a strong structure. If wheel wells are visible inside these are pretty strong. My Mini had bar supports bolted to wells and they were very strong.

"I would rather be thrown form an MGB at 60+mph than be in a roll over going that fast."

Your logic is more or less like this - someone fell from an airplane thousands of feet up and survived. There was a case where someone jumped from an airplane with a parachute and died. Therefore it is better to jump from an airplane without a parachute.

Again I have to strees that ones goes with the odds and odds of flipping a car are so much less than hitting something. I use seatbelts and always will. Do as you please and be thrown from a car if you think it better in that 1 in 10,000 chance. Just look at how many cars roll versus how many hit something or get hit.

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As a competitor in a sanctioned racing series I may be able to add something to the discussion.

1) A well designed roll bar uses backing plates to sandwich the sheet metal, in our series the "foot" and backing plate must both be a minimum of 20 sq. ins. and secured by grade 8 bolts of a specified dimension.
The type of steel to be used is specified as is the wall thickness and the type of welding allowed. There must be two rear braces at a minimum of 30 degrees from upright and a diagonal brace from one side of the hoop to the other. Finally the tube must be mandrel bent with a minimum radius of cuvature to avoid "necking" that would be caused by a muffler shop style tube bender, and the bar must be 2 inches above the drivers helmet when he/she is seated and belted up.

2) A bar of this type may not be suited to a street car because of interference with the soft top, and because a rear end collision will cause your head to snap back, hitting the roll bar. Padding is available to give protection, and is thicker on the front side (i.e. the hole is off centre.

3) A street car can slide into a curb and be flipped, even a low car. A proper roll bar would also resist a side impact to some degree, though possibly transferring rather than absorbing the energy of the impact.

4) I agree you do not want to wear a 5 point harness for street driving, too difficult to look over your shoulder and requires rollover protection.
Simon.
 
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