• Hi Guest!
    You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

Do seatbelts increase safety?

Share this page

"I’m still kind of shocked whenever I’m traveling in Arizona and see a rider without a helmet. "

Pennsy recently passed a law so one does NOT have to wear them. Some think that is a step backwards. Some bikers seem happy though.
 
Yes, in PA we don't have to wear helmets if you are old enough and stupid enough /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Years ago, my older brother flipped his car end over end twice and rolled 3 or 4 time down an interstate embankment...and walked away thanks to his seatbelt, which nobody doubts saved his life. I have worn mine religiously ever since.

Bruce /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Well would you rather like to be thrown from the car and have a chance of living or be strapped in and be crushed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't help but speak up, just waiting for the right time.

Brief personal work history : 11 years local law enforcement ( 6 years crime scene investigator), 18 years local volunteer fireman.
Brief personal crash test history: 1983, near head-on colision, shortened my 1975 Toyota Corolla E-5 (hemi head 1.8 liter, 5-speed terror) by three feet: put the front bumper at the firewall.
Education: BS Civil Engineering

Having walked away from a horrendous crash, and having responded to hundreds, I have a slightly different perspective, maybe.

My seat belt saved my ugly face, no doubt about it. Two strained forearm and calf muscles later, the car had a bent steering wheel, a shifter laid back almost flat on the driveshaft hump in the second gear position, and a stretched emergency brake cable with the handle standing straight up.

But enough about me.

3 comments:
1.
There are always three collisions involved: 1- car against another object, 2- passenger against some part of car interior (seat belt, steering wheel, etc.), 3- internal organs against external portion of passenger.

2.
I have never had to unbuckle a deceased person, and don't have knowledge of any co-workers or "professional" acquaintances that have.

3.
Most recent "thrown free" incident I responded to, went something like this: Van with family of six or seven, returning from a long day at the beach. Front seat passengers wearing seat belts as prescribed by law. Rear seat passengers not wearing belts (not currently required except for children under a certain age and weight).
Right side tires left edge of pavement and driver overcorrected, opposite lock slides, a front wheel caught in the soft shoulder and sent the van into a roll. During the first roll, all glass broke, and (unbuckled) passenger I was assigned to was momentarily lying on broken glass. As roll continued, the van went airborne. Passenger stayed on glass until van lifted her by her waist (hips and legs still below and inside the large side window), and threw her "clear" of the van. The van rolled another two times while in the air according to some accounts, didn't touch the ground for another 50-75 feet before rolling again. The van was totaled, the roof visibly out of square, not a straight body panel left. Those who stayed with the van survived.

My passenger flew nearly 100 feet (horizontally) before striking a 4-6 inch diameter tree about 2 feet above the ground. She didn't survive her injuries.

Personal Comments:

Wear your seat belt, preferably a lap AND shoulder type of belt, or better (4 or 5 point harness).

Make sure that ALL of your passengers wear theirs.

Heed these instructions EVERY time you get in a car, as driver or passenger.

AND, on a somewhat related note, don't drive impaired (tired, intoxicated, without prescribed eyewear, etc.) or angry.

I'll get off my soapbox now. Sorry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


On a brighter note /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, the temps are up, and the tops are down, so slick up with sun screen and have FUN /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


Mike /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif
 
You do have to think what kind of a car you are in also. A little convertible is not a minivan. There is probably no way someone would survive in a rollover in an MGB with 4/5pt harnesses. If the car wanted to roll over on me, I would want to be thrown out of a car. I might have a chance that way. Don't you agree?
 
[ QUOTE ]
<<SNIP>>

I'll get off my soapbox now. Sorry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Mike /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/patriot.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Don’t apologize Mike,

Great story and good advice. I too have seen the tragic life taking results of not wearing seatbelts under very similar conditions to what you described.

While I belive all states have some sort of laws that require seatbelts, I guess I’ll give Adam his right to make his own personal choice to do so or not. Just the same as everyone has the choice to obey or not any law for that matter. But you’d have a hard time arguing the merits of not wearing one with that police officer or a judge should you decide to fight it. That said you should count yourself lucky if getting a ticket is the only thing you have to worry about for not wearing your seatbelt.

Not trying to pick on Adam (again it’s his choice), but the old “I’d rather take my chances & get thrown clear argument” is no different than some of the silly claims made by opponents of mandating helmet laws (a point I tried to make in my earlier post). Many of the folks who dislike helmets laws tried to assert a false safety claim that wearing a helmet restricted or interfered with the motorcycle rider’s ability to hear things around them.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
You do have to think what kind of a car you are in also. A little convertible is not a minivan. There is probably no way someone would survive in a rollover in an MGB with 4/5pt harnesses. If the car wanted to roll over on me, I would want to be thrown out of a car. I might have a chance that way. Don't you agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

End the discussion. Get a roll bar and good seat belts. Roll bars are period options sort of so if it trying to keep a car original I would not concern myself with a roll bar being non original.

I have a nephew who at 18 would NEVER wear a seat belt because he said if he had an accident and the car caught fire and he was inside unconscious and no one could undo the belts and... and... and... He wears belts now because he is 20 years older and 20 years smarter.

Just read the statistics. Seat belts save lives. Odds of a flip over a far far less than a head on. Play the odds.
 
"Many of the folks who dislike helmets laws tried to assert a false safety claim that wearing a helmet restricted or interfered with the motorcycle rider’s ability to hear things around them."

Boy there is a great argument. Hearing??? One can hear in a helmet infinitely better than someone driving with headphones or the doors and windows bulging in and out from a stereo so loud you can hear it 3 blocks away.

And half the bikes I know are so loud with straight pipes and wind in their ears they can't hear much anyhow.

Which brings up another argument. Why can bikes drive with straight pipes and seemingly get away with it when if one of my cars is tad loud a swat team is on me?
 
[ QUOTE ]
<<SNIP>> Hearing??? One can hear in a helmet infinitely better than someone driving with headphones or the doors and windows bulging in and out from a stereo so loud you can hear it 3 blocks away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif Totally pathetic argument isn’t it. FYI - Here in California headphones are illegal for drivers.

[ QUOTE ]
And half the bikes I know are so loud with straight pipes and wind in their ears they can't hear much anyhow.

Which brings up another argument. Why can bikes drive with straight pipes and seemingly get away with it when if one of my cars is tad loud a swat team is on me?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed! I too have noticed that the first thing most V-Twin folks do is dump the cross-over stock exhaust system. My neighbor is CHP motorcycle patrol officer and says that most aftermarket exhausts aren’t legal but he doesn’t bother them unless they are doing something else wrong. But if they are annoyingly loud, he loves issuing tickets to these chuckle heads and goes out of his way to do so.

The Actor Gary Busy used to be a huge and very vocal opponent of helmet laws in any form. Least ways until he had that seemingly minor low-speed get-off, when he slid into a curb head first. Landed him in the hospital for months & rehab. No surprise but after all of that, how he’s come out as one of the largest proponents of helmets.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif
 
The statistics are totally overwhelming regarding seat belt use vs. no seat belt in a crash. Seat belts save lives. I've spent my entire 25 year career in the insurance industry, most recently in workplace safety, and seat belt use is a virtual no-brainer.

You may check the stats regarding seat belts (and the failure to use them) at various web sites, perform a google search, read & heed.

And, install seat belts if you don't have them, please.
 
"Loud pipes save lives" I dunno about anywhere else but in Michigan we get a lot of retards on motorcycles that whip through traffic in the most unsafe ways imagineable. I've almost hit a few people on bikes only to hear them see what they were doing before they slammed into me. The opposite is also true. People in their SUVs thinking they own the road only notice a bike when they hear it. And yes, wear a helmet.
 
[ QUOTE ]
"Loud pipes save lives. <<SNI>>

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm? Maybe.. Maybe not…

We had a neighbor that had some bad habits. He loved to work on his Harley late at night, come home at 2 or 3 in the morning revving his bike and letting it backfire waking up the whole neighborhood two or three nights a week. Once in a while he’d try’n have an all night party with some of his fellow biker buddies, but that never lasted long as the police would put an end to that right away.

Anyway more than a few times I thought that my dad (retired Marine) was going to commit mayhem with one of his 12Guage shotguns. But luckily the guy just left one day and we never heard from him again. I still wonder if he got an itch for the open road or if one of our fellow neighbors just took him out one day. But I really don’t believe my dad had anything to do with his sudden disappearance, as it would have been way too messy to cover-up.

But the law is the law and if you have excessively loud pipes you deserve to get a ticket.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif

Them's the rules!
 
"only notice a bike when they hear it."

I like a nice louder sound but my argument is why do these guys get away with straight pipes and if I have a pin hole in a muffler I get stopped? And I am not saying the pinhole is unsafe because of fumes. I am making an analogy to sound.
 
[ QUOTE ]

End the discussion. Get a roll bar and good seat belts. Roll bars are period options sort of so if it trying to keep a car original I would not concern myself with a roll bar being non original.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have 5pt harnesses and wear them where ever I go. I also Have a roll bar I just took out. You say to use a roll bar but why. If I bolt it to the floor it does nothing except get in the way of my comfortible Fireo seats. If it did roll over It would rip right through the sheet metal. Trust me its not hard. I did it the other day and didnt even know it. Now a roll cage might actually do something. I was thinking about one but I'm jst tring to figure out how much of a pane to deal with it may be on my daily/only car, but my car would be much safer with it in and actual mounted to something more then just sheept metal with standard bolts.
 
[quote}I have 5pt harnesses and wear them where ever I go. I also Have a roll bar I just took out. You say to use a roll bar but why. If I bolt it to the floor it does nothing except get in the way of my comfortible Fireo seats. If it did roll over It would rip right through the sheet metal. Trust me its not hard. I did it the other day and didnt even know it. Now a roll cage might actually do something. I was thinking about one but I'm jst tring to figure out how much of a pane to deal with it may be on my daily/only car, but my car would be much safer with it in and actual mounted to something more then just sheept metal with standard bolts.

[/ QUOTE ]
A proper roll bar is not just bolted to sheet metal. It is not a piece of pipe that is bent like a "U" and simply bolted to the floor. It should have braces also bolted to probably fender wells or some other place. Also bolts should have large backing plates under floor and wherever else it bolts. Should probably be a 4 bolt plate at each mounting point, not just two. Now you have at least 16 bolts holding this thing and backing plates. It won't simply pop through the sheet metal unless the sheet metal is really bad. Also I hope the bar you had is not a piece of 2 inch water pipe someone made in their backyard.

Also keep in mind that the odds of rolling a car at 10 mph are rather slim. At 60 mph a bit more but odds of rolling are slim versus hitting something head-on. Besides do you really want to be thrown from a car at 60 mph? Again play the odds. Wear a belt. Remember it isn't the crash that kills, it is that sudden stop. And I would not like the idea of being thrown from a car on a highway with other cars or being thrown from a car and finding a tree of power pole that decides that is where I will make my sudden stop.

Here is an MGB bar setup on eBay. Only as an example, but it has a brace that bolts to the tunnel. Plus it bolts all across the back shelf. Not the style I like but still an idea. I prefer a full bar with a brace to each wheel well or somewhere strong. As stated in the sale information, only cosmetic and not really a racing strength bar. You need to buy a proper bar made by a company that knows what it is doing.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7904273928&category=10076
 
I'll explain really quickly. 3 pt. harnesses allow the body to move out of the way if the car rolls and the roof caves in. 5 pt. harnesses don't. The roll bar keeps the roof from crushing your head like a melon if you roll over.
 
As Bruce has said already. I think the likelihood of rolling a MGB are at best slim compared to all of the other ugly possibilities that could happen if you’re pushing the car’s envelope on the streets. Head-on, Rear-ended, T-boned, hitting or being hit by someone else at any speed would be the most likely collisions and anyone of these might prove fatal under the right set of circumstances.

But no-matter for it seems if someone is “dead” (pun intended) set against using their seatbelts despite what the facts state. I tend to believe that there is nothing anyone could say to convince them otherwise.

Then that begs the following questions: Why does one drive their car in such a way, that they need to be so concerned about rolling over in the first place on public roads? If not their own safety - don't they care about the other folks on the road that might get hurt?

Personally I think that with a low profile car (like most LBCs), there is a far better chance today of another larger vehicle just rolling over you - than ever having to worrying about rolling it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think the likelihood of rolling a MGB are at best slim compared to all of the other ugly possibilities that could happen if you’re pushing the car’s envelope on the streets. Head-on, Rear-ended, T-boned, hitting or being hit by someone else at any speed would be the most likely collisions and anyone of these might prove fatal under the right set of circumstances.

But no-matter for it seems if someone is “dead” (pun intended) set against using their seatbelts despite what the facts state. I tend to believe that there is nothing anyone could say to convince them otherwise.

Then that begs the following questions: Why does one drive their car in such a way, that they need to be so concerned about rolling over in the first place on public roads? If not their own safety - don't they care about the other folks on the road that might get hurt?

Personally I think that with a low profile car (like most LBCs), there is a far better chance today of another larger vehicle just rolling over you - than ever having to worrying about rolling it.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well said. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif
 
As someone who was in an accident this past February I can contest to the safety a seat belt provides. A car slid sideways into the front of mine at about 60 km/h (35 mph). The accident totalled both cars. The frontend of my VW crumpled the way it was designed to, absorbing a lot of the energy of the impact, but I still have a very sore left shoulder from the seat belt, but not as sore as my hand, which flew up and cracked the windshield (my car did not have air bags). I was fortunate not to suffer any whiplash because my headrest was properly positioned. The young teenager driving the other car wasn't wearing a seatbelt and was thrown across the car and hit the passenger door head first. She was in the hospital for many days with bleeding on the brain. She was speeding on slushy roads because she was in a hurry to get to work. I will continue to wear a seatbelt. They save lives and save you from serious injury.
 
Sorry to hear of your accident and glad you were not hurt more seriously. It is hard to believe that people just won't wear them or would even quetsion why they should wear them. There have been a few fatalities here and very few people here wear belts. I have no doubt that they would have not only survived the accident but had few if any injuries. Now they are dead.

I wear them religiously.
 
[ QUOTE ]
A proper roll bar is not just bolted to sheet metal. It is not a piece of pipe that is bent like a "U" and simply bolted to the floor....... Also I hope the bar you had is not a piece of 2 inch water pipe someone made in their backyard.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have a roll bar like bret and like just about anyone who has a roll bar in an MGB. But still it will do next to nothing to help you It doesn't matter how many bolts that it has in the small plate on the end of it. it's still grabing on to the same amount of metal. Do you really think 16 bolts through sheet metal will actually suport a car's weight. I would rather be thrown form an MGB at 60+mph than be in a roll over going that fast.
 
Back
Top