Dead spark plugs ?

[Deleted member 8987]

Didn't someone recommend or suggest going back about three pages ago?

I have dual-point Mallory on my performance flatmotor. Points in both 50's.
Original layout in the Jag.

I did auto repair for many decades.
Factory electronic ignition failure meant a tow truck.
Aftermarket was the same, but more often.
Granted, they've sorted the mess out over the decades somewhat.
Chrysler was the worst. Guys who raced had a big barrel switch on the dash to select a whole new set of electronics when the first set failed halfway around.

Early General Misunderstanding HEI's ate modules like it was going out of style. They finally fixed that.

When you have points, and do a tune up (maintenance...don't wait until it quits), put ALL the parts in a double zip-lock baggie, including plugs.
IF something pukes like a condensor, you can get home.
Credit card or business card to set the points to get you home.

Reliable.

 

[sim]

Didn't someone recommend or suggest going back about three pages ago?

I have dual-point Mallory on my performance flatmotor. Points in both 50's.
Original layout in the Jag.

I did auto repair for many decades.
Factory electronic ignition failure meant a tow truck.
Aftermarket was the same, but more often.
Granted, they've sorted the mess out over the decades somewhat.
Chrysler was the worst. Guys who raced had a big barrel switch on the dash to select a whole new set of electronics when the first set failed halfway around.

Early General Misunderstanding HEI's ate modules like it was going out of style. They finally fixed that.

When you have points, and do a tune up (maintenance...don't wait until it quits), put ALL the parts in a double zip-lock baggie, including plugs.
IF something pukes like a condensor, you can get home.
Credit card or business card to set the points to get you home.

Reliable.

Yes they did I am going with copper core wires with grounded shielding. may have the parts on the 24th. Will up date in a day or 2
Thanks
rod

 

[sim]

Here is an up date
bought a MSD 45K volt coil from summit. Installed and tested with copper wire from the coil to ground had a good 1/2 inch spark/
Bought the aircraft wire and shielding. also bought the spark boot with 5 OHM of resistance. Did get spark to jump the end of # 1 to ground. Tried to start and still would not start. sprayed carb cleaner into carbs. It started. Shut it off after a bit. and tryed to restart. It would not and i have not had a pop out of since then. I have no spark anywhere. I do have power at the coil Test light works on both - and + side. The distributor is the Pertronix Flame Thrower Electronic Distributor 2 years old not many miles on it. Rotor turns and is not burned Cap looks good and the pick up to the rotor seems ok.
Any ideas?
Thanks
rod

 

[BWA]

"Ya not enought spark caused by carbon core wires i think."

And yet, there are half a billion cars running all over the world perfectly well with carbon wires. Carbon wires do not result in low/poor voltage to the plug if they are in good condition.

Pertronics recommends carbon wires for a reason, and, you choose to ignore their advice.................

It's not the wires, it's not the plugs.

A hotter coil will not give you a hotter spark. If a plug needs 7,000 volts to fire, that's all it will generate. If you had a million volt coil, that plug would still only spark off at 7,000 volts.

You are over complicating this. In the end, it will be something small, and, something stupid.

 

[sim]

"Ya not enought spark caused by carbon core wires i think."

And yet, there are half a billion cars running all over the world perfectly well with carbon wires. Carbon wires do not result in low/poor voltage to the plug if they are in good condition.

Pertronics recommends carbon wires for a reason, and, you choose to ignore their advice.................

It's not the wires, it's not the plugs.

A hotter coil will not give you a hotter spark. If a plug needs 7,000 volts to fire, that's all it will generate. If you had a million volt coil, that plug would still only spark off at 7,000 volts.

You are over complicating this. In the end, it will be something small, and, something stupid.

Yes i tend to over complicate things More so when i am working with made in China parts. I did the test that Moss has on their page. The first time I did both systems checked out ok. then I went complicated and replaced plugs coil and wires with GROUNDED SHIELD. If not shield the RF would interfere with the pick up in the distributor. I did get the car to start one time. But after another 2 hours of fiddling , I can not get a pop. After doing the test again I get no light at the coil but i do get light where the coil wire connect to the key ignition wire. My conclusion now is to replace the ignitor in the Distributor. Anyone agree?

 

[BWA]

Absolutely.

Check you are getting a full twelve volts on the white wire going to the coil.

 

[sim]

Absolutely.

Check you are getting a full twelve volts on the white wire going to the coil.

Volt meter is down but test light is bright

 

[sim]

almost sure it is the igniter . have a look at the label, if that is a label on the ignitor, it look like it got hot

 

[Deleted member 8987]

Test light is for ensuring presence of voltage.
Fix the dang meter. Get a true measurement.
Make sure you have an "ohms" setting that works.
Remember what I said earlier about throwing parts and money at the problem?
Eventually you'll luck out. Until then, you are A) dead in the water, B) spinning in the wind, and C) spending money you may not need to spend.
I gave you the ohms per foot readings on your old wires. If they were good, replacing them was not necessary.
You've replaced the coil. Good. Everybody needs to replace their coil needlessly a good half dozen times until they get it out of their system.
What were the primary and secondary ohm readings on the coil you removed? Were they in spec? What are the primary and secondary readings on the "new" coil?
Wrong coil for Pertronix, blow the Pertronix.....but maybe another coil or two will solve that...NOT!

At this point in time, my best advice to you is to locate an old point style distributor, install it.
Test the "new" coil, if it's for points, and reads good, try it and see if it runs.

Dave

 

[sim]

Test light is for ensuring presence of voltage.
Fix the dang meter. Get a true measurement.
Make sure you have an "ohms" setting that works.
Remember what I said earlier about throwing parts and money at the problem?
Eventually you'll luck out. Until then, you are A) dead in the water, B) spinning in the wind, and C) spending money you may not need to spend.
I gave you the ohms per foot readings on your old wires. If they were good, replacing them was not necessary.
You've replaced the coil. Good. Everybody needs to replace their coil needlessly a good half dozen times until they get it out of their system.
What were the primary and secondary ohm readings on the coil you removed? Were they in spec? What are the primary and secondary readings on the "new" coil?
Wrong coil for Pertronix, blow the Pertronix.....but maybe another coil or two will solve that...NOT!

At this point in time, my best advice to you is to locate an old point style distributor, install it.
Test the "new" coil, if it's for points, and reads good, try it and see if it runs.

Dave

Hi
Just talked to Summit I think I cooked the ignitor with the new coil as it was only .18 or so ohms. Needs 3 ohm. Did not quite think through the idea of switching coils, Till I removed the distributor and saw both wires went into the ignitor. The condition of the label was the big clue. so i now have a new coil and ignitor on the way.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Rod,

coil was running with too much voltage and overheated. At start the non ballasted side provides extra spark power when the starter is engaged. During normal running the ballast resistor drops input voltage so coil does not overheat. Guessing you hooked up wrong and burned out the coil. I discovered this when I gad same issue with our SeaRay. Hot a new engine that would run like a scalded dog for about 40 minutes and then all of the sudden engine would die and I'd be stranded. After replacing 3 coils and needing to be towed in 3 times finally asked a real Mercruiser qualified mechanic who set me straight about the need for a ballast resistor. Now my '68 w standard coil and a '66 1098 installed did not have a ballast resistor.

 

[sim]

Rod,

coil was running with too much voltage and overheated. At start the non ballasted side provides extra spark power when the starter is engaged. During normal running the ballast resistor drops input voltage so coil does not overheat. Guessing you hooked up wrong and burned out the coil. I discovered this when I gad same issue with our SeaRay. Hot a new engine that would run like a scalded dog for about 40 minutes and then all of the sudden engine would die and I'd be stranded. After replacing 3 coils and needing to be towed in 3 times finally asked a real Mercruiser qualified mechanic who set me straight about the need for a ballast resistor. Now my '68 w standard coil and a '66 1098 installed did not have a ballast resistor.

Hi
This MSD coil was not made for the pentronic distributor. It drew too much power and the ignitor could not handle it. I just was not thinking to the end of what if. I have now ordered a 3 ohm coil and ignitor form Summit and payed less than buying just the ignitor from Moss. Good ending to my mess up.

 

[sim]

up date. Turns out it was the coil. After installing the proper coil, new ignitor and using the old plug wires , I got the car started. I have now replaced the old wires with the cobalt wires. As I could not get the car to start with shield and grounded copper core wires.
Re adjusted timing and it now starts as it did before it quit.
Thanks for all the suggestions
rod