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Crypty back on jack stands

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NickMorgan said:
Dale,
Make sure that you adjust the rear shoes before you adjust the hand brake. If you do it the other way around you will never get any braking efficiency from the rear brakes using the pedal.

Nick
Click to expand...

Nick, with all due respect, I don't see it that way. If you get the brake shoes on both wheels in full contact with the drums by the handbrake cable adjustment, then release the handbrake, the shoes can return to the same distance from the drums because of the limiting factor of the cable.
Then just use the adjuster to take up the distance between the now equal starting positions of the shoes and full contact with the brake drums.
I'm not saying you have to adjust the handbrake cables every time you need to adjust the brakes, just if you are having problems with handbrakes or installing new shoes.
At any rate, I don't see how doing the hand brake first would negatively affect the efficiency.
I'm opened minded about it and would like to hear how it would affect the braking efficiency, though.
 
The shoes should be as close to the drums as possible, without creating a drag, before any compensating cable adjustment is done. The cables should have minimal adjustment to fully engage the parking brake. The travel of the pistons in the wheel cylinders when engaging the shoes to the drums, should be minimal to get minimal pedal travel and maximum braking.
 
Would you agree, Paul, that between 3 and 5 clicks (for those of us that have clicks) is optimal for full lock-up with the handbrake ?
 
PB,

That is exactly where mine is tight now. 4 clicks, full lockup, but again, everything is brand new with only 1,300 miles on it. However, you should still be there via adjustment with parts that are seasoned.
 
Ok, then. What I'm getting at (and not making my point all that well) is that when you release the hand brake, your shoes travel back only as far as the 4 clicks brought them towards the drum. Both right and left moved equal distance if they were adjusted equally.
So now that that is equal and synchronized, by using the actual brake adjusters , the pistons can be adjusted to start simultaneously and travel equal distance when the brake pedal is pushed following the normal adjustment procedure.
Do you think I am over thinking this ?
It's the way I ended up getting the brakes on my car to grab equally with both the handbrake and the brake pedal when I started to sort things out under my ownership.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]OK, then. What I'm getting at (and not making my point all that well) is that when you release the hand brake, your shoes travel back only as far as the 4 clicks brought them towards the drum. Both right and left moved equal distance if they were adjusted equally.[/QUOTE]

Yes, if everything was equally adjusted, that would be correct.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]the pistons can be adjusted to start simultaneously and travel equal distance when the brake pedal is pushed following the normal adjustment procedure.[/QUOTE]

How would you adjust the pistons in the wheel cylinders that move hydraulically? Or do you mean the adjuster at the bottom of the shoes? I may have misunderstood you. If you adjust that first to get the shoes out as far as possible with no drag, that will be the end of it, except for taking up slack in the cable.
 

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Yeah, Paul that's what I meant, using the adjuster on the bottom. I am begining to see that I was overcomplicating things. Thanks for hanging in there with me.
 
With the adjuster you are setting the gap between the shoes and the drums to the nominal dimension required - that takes care of shoe wear. Operate the brake pedal and the hydraulic system will move the cylinder pistons to their nominal position. After that, the only thing left is to adjust the handbrake cables to their nominal position - that takes care of cable stretching. Done.
 
TRDejaVu said:
Operate the brake pedal and the hydraulic system will move the cylinder pistons to their nominal position.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't even need to operate the pedal; as the 'nominal' piston position is bottomed in the bore. The shoe return springs should keep pressure against the slave piston all the time.

But what stepping on the pedal can do is cause the cylinder to move in the backing plate; which may cause the shoe adjustment to need another click or two if the brakes were just assembled or badly out of adjustment before.
 
Correct, although...

Dateline sometime in the late 70s. My future best man did some brake work in the parking lot of where we worked (slow day). He got it done and went for a quick test drive. The only problem was that he hadn't pumped the brakes to take up the slack. The security guard who normally just lifted the gate and waved was on lunch and his replacement was more of a by the book person. When my best man realized that the gate wasn't going up he decided he better slow down, but the car didn't because he hadn't needed to use the brakes yet. There was a lot of report writing to explain the demolished security barrier. I always pump them as I want to be sure that everything is snugged up properly.
 
Pumping after is a necessity. Pumping before is not.
 
The front calipers work that way; but not the rear drum brakes on a TR.

But it's ALWAYS a good idea to check the brakes after any work and before you actually need them ! After an unpleasant incident where my brakes had failed just sitting in a parking spot, I now make checking for "pedal" part of my startup sequence. Many newer cars will refuse to go into gear if you don't.

That little incident also taught me the value of having a working hand brake ... after backing out of the parking spot, I headed down a steep hill into an underground parking garage before realizing that all my brake fluid was back in the parking spot.
 
Well, a mechanic I ain't but nuts and bolts I can grasp.

I pulled both wheels, deep cleaned everything, checked
for proper fastener torque readings, greased all the zerks
I could reach, used my handy dandy Roadster Factory brake
adjustment tool to reset the brake shoes.

Got the slack out of the brand new hand brake cables.

Added fork oil to the Armstrong level shocks.

Coated all the fastener heads with grease to keep the salt
air rusting to a minimum.

Took a test spin............car stops on a dime and
will lock rear wheels. The hand brake now holds the car on slight inclines.

A decent week in Crypt-land.

d
BrakeDrun.jpg
 
Way to go Dale, always knew you could do it,
 
Tinster said:
A decent week in Crypt-land.
Click to expand...
That doesn't count as Crypt or Pedro related. Amos' brakes just needed adjustment by its current owner.

Now you have a reference point as to how the brakes should feel and react, so if that starts to noticeably change you will be able to catch it in time.
 
TRDejaVu said:
Tinster said:
A decent week in Crypt-land.
Click to expand...
That doesn't count as Crypt or Pedro related. Amos' brakes just needed adjustment by its current owner.

Now you have a reference point as to how the brakes should feel and react, so if that starts to noticeably change you will be able to catch it in time.
Click to expand...

<span style="color: #660000"> Point made Ian !!
I am forever stunned by the vast amount of automotive knowledge I lack.
Also a major handicap for me is I've had no other TR6 to look at or
drive for comparisons. This three year restoration has been almost 100%
by internet LBC experts and me the hands-on laborer.

Now I learned today a TR6 has "real" brakes.

later gator,

d</span>
 
It wasn't meant as a slap. Now you have to remember about hard braking techniques before anti-lock brakes became common.

Don't be hard on yourself; there are things that you have done on that car that I haven't had the experience of doing yet. There are also many classic car drivers who won't even change their own oil or plugs, yet are still quite opinionated and use the line, "because my mechanic said so". You are proof that with a bit of guidance it can be done. Remember, even the experts on this forum are not above asking questions when they don't know the answer to a particular problem.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Also a major handicap for me is I've had no other TR6 to look at or drive for comparisons. [/QUOTE]

Well, you do have this forum and we have digital cameras to help you out when possible. The driving for comparison part is a bit more difficult.
 
Nice going Dale. I think we all admire your persistence. And now you've just added another increment to your body of mechanical knowledge thru experience, just as everyone on this forum has done over the years. Some of us may just have gotten an earlier start, but we've all learned from others.
Happy driving.

Tom
 
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