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Crypt Clutch 2nd Look-see

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Ah Paul!!

I totally misunderstood.

I thought this was a driveshaft unknown
that needed to be overhauled completely.

Immediately upon unpacking, I did observe
how "tight" it felt compared to Crypty.

You made my day buddy!!

Where else might I purchase a seal puller?
I really cannot comprehend what they look like
in 3-d. ie: how long are they? Does the pointy end
go under the seal to pry it out? Or into the access
slot beside the seal on top edge?

Man, I hate being so stupid about these auto mechanic things.

thanks as always,

d
 
Here ya go Dale, this is a Craftsmen seal puller and its about a foot long, you hook the backside of the seal and then lever it out.

For the seal in the nose cover of the transmission, you could always use a long screwdriver (or something like it) from the back side and tap it out.

P2120001.jpg
 
Tinster said:
Pete:

I think this is Moss piece 54?



d

comm2.jpg
Click to expand...

Yes, 54 is the front cover. The piece in the top picture, and the release bearing and carrier are still mounted on it. My belief is that stickiness in the release of the clutch can be caused by the carrier getting cocked at an angle and binding on the cover, in cases of advanced wear on one or both of the parts. I didn't come up with that myself - I remember reading that point of view somewhere online but that was a long time ago (10yr+). The symptom was that the clutch would release fine until things got warmed up- then it would start to bind. You'd be releasing the pedal to let the clutch in, and it wouldn't engage smoothly, then half way up the travel it would pop back and you'd lurch away (hopefully). I learned to 'goose' the throttle when I was letting the clutch in and it would break the stiction somehow. If you had symptoms that sound like that at all, I would take a good look at the front cover, and check the fit between it and the carrier. Clean them up and put a light layer of grease on. They shouldn't be tight of course, but you shouldn't be able to wiggle them much. In my case, the front cover showed clear signs of advanced wear esp. on the upper and lower surfaces. I'm not at all advocating it as a routine replacement item, but I guess I don't see why it wouldn't be as good a candidate for replacement as anything else if the approach is to replace everything in there that has any bearing (pun?) on the clutch release operation. In my case I was going to make certain I did everything I could to fix that annoying problem while I was in there. Just something to look at. Pete
 
Whatever you use to get the seal out, just be sure to try to not damage or otherwise gouge the housing into which it goes. If you're careful with the tool above or even a simple screw driver and small wooden wedges to help you pry (and protect the surface), you can get it out in pretty good condition. The old seal will then serve as a good driver to help install the new.

And Dale, I would never have knowingly sent you a junk shaft that needed rebuilt. That would be adding insult to injury for you at this point in time.

Good luck.............
 
Dale. Have been watching with great interest as to your clutch dilema. First off, This is almost ready to go together.As a mechanic for thirty years this seems simple to me so I'll try not to miss any steps. A long narrow screwdriver from the front end of the seal carrier will push the seal out and then the new one can go in.Then follow all the directions you've been given as to how to install a clutch. I sure do wish I had a few extra coins as I would fly down and put this baby together for you. There is nothing you can't do if you take your time and listen to the posts here. The advice is good and we're all on your side. Take a deep breath, drink a glass of Merlot or Shiraz and then go back to work. If I can be of any help send me a PM or post it here as I am on at least 5 hrs. a day Dave
 
Shawn/Dave:

I read your messages first thing this morning.

At first light, I followed the suggestion about
using a flathead screwdriver to get the tranny
front cover oil seal out. Less than 2 minutes and
it was out.

Experience is everything in this world. I hate being
ignorant. Now that I see how the oil seal looks
in 3-d, I could have figured out the screw driver
technique myself. But I am totally afraid of doing
damage when I cannot see behind things. I only attempted
to remove the seal from the top edge.

Here is a close-up photo of the tranny front cover piece.
It has one rather deep scratch about 3/8" long. Some other
surface scratches I could get out easily with #600 wet sand.

I'll be ordering the tranny end cap from Moss today.
Should I order a new cover piece as well? It's only $60. plus shipping. What do you experts think?

Thanks as always,

d
bearingshaft.jpg
 
That gouge won't affect anything, Dale. Just use the #600 and smooth out any ridges. It looks as if there was a T/O bearing failure somewhere in the past, or the linkage was so worn as to allow the bearing to cant over and bind.
 
Thanks DR_

Much appreciated. I'll get out the #600 and start polishing.

Pete: You wrote-
"The symptom was that the clutch would release fine until
things got warmed up- then it would start to bind. You'd be
releasing the pedal to let the clutch in, and it wouldn't
engage smoothly, then half way up the travel it would pop
back and you'd lurch away."

Pete, when were you in the Bayamon area driving the Crypt
Car during one of it's very rare operational miles? You
described it perfectly.

regards,

d
 
Dale-

Good progress so far. In my opinion, I think the cover is clean enough - polishing with 600 grit is not necessary. The shaft in the picture you show does not seal against anything, nor are there parts rotating against it. DrEntropy does make a good point to make sure there are no bad ridges - but this is only to ensure that the throwout bearing carrier doesn't catch on the cover.

Also, before you order more parts from Moss - are you positive you need the following:

697-200 $0.75 GASKET, countershaft cover
848-010 $2.75 COVER, countershaft end

Note that the Moss catalog is pretty tough to decipher parts - the cover (part 58) as is noted does NOT go on the front cover (part 54). The specific cover is for the counter or layshaft I believe, and normally is there, along with the gasket, held in by two bolts.

Here's another exploded diagram from the Rimmer Bros website to show the parts:
TR6 trans

The picture isn't great, but it will expand to show things a bit better than Moss.

Anyway, I'd be surprised if this countershaft cover is truly missing. Maybe so but don't rely on the exploded drawings to see how the trans is put together - it is misleading.

I'll shut up now, good luck!

Randy
 
Dale-

A quick follow-up. To get you more info than you may ever need, take a look at the VTR website resources:

VTR Maintenance Pages

In particular, one of the pdfs there has very good pictures:
Trans rebuild

If you scroll through the pdf, you will see the notorious broken fork pin, and also a very good picture of this countershaft cover (Step 7 in pdf). If you don't have that cover, and see where it is missing, go and spend some money. Otherwise, forget about it!

Apologies if you've already been pointed to this site, but this thread is getting too long to read all the way through.

Randy
 
Randy,

Thanks a lot for the input. You just saved me a
10 to 14 day wait on parts.

I wrote down all the parts needed for this project
as they were suggested by the experts. I ordered
from Moss & TRF.

I could not imagine I missed a major component
and I was REALLY slow and careful when I pulled
the tranny away from the engine. Nothing fell out.

I went and serched for this missing cap beneath
the car, I closely examined the bearing holder
and found no marks where a cap or gasket might
have been. I was going to order them in a while.

I did an internet search and found a blow up of this
"missing" cap and gasket. Very happy you posted.
Long ago someone told me to order that gasket and I
have it on hand. Here is a photo of the "missing" cover
and gasket- for everyone's reference.

Thanks much-Dale

cshaftcover.jpg
 
Need some help with the Crypt car.
So what's new.

I am going to attempt to install the throwout
bearing shaft oil seal and re-install the shaft into the tranny.

Here is a photo of the t/o bearing shaft.
Can anyone tell me the correct positioning of this piece inside the tranny?

At what position on a clock face does the slot point?

thanks as always.

bearingshaft-1.jpg
 
Sorry Dale,

I was one of those who told you that you needed that cap and gasket. I misinterpreted the Moss Parts catalog but thanks for showing me the correct location. I owe you one and BTW I have no clue which way that slot lines up.
 
The drain/slot goes down. In other words align it so it points toward the counter shaft cover. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif
 
Tinster,

The slot must go at the 9 O'clock position as you look into the front of the transmission bellhousing. It MUST align with the cutout in the transmission case at the left/9 o'clock. The gasket has a cutout that must match up too. All three parts must align so the front bearing will get proper lubrication (it may be for the oil to drain back). You can't tell from the drawing in the Bentley manual (p.289), but my original factory TR3 workshop manual says align it at 9 o'clock.

I'm finally ready to reassemble my spare gearbox (after making a center bearing driver out of 1 1/4" PCV pipe) and hope to fit those parts by the Monday holiday. I used Q-Tips to really clean the grooves in the front cover - there were tiny slivers of metal from the failing counterchaft rear bearing.

This has turned into a pretty long thread, but there's been a lot of good discussion and info on it.

Jeff
1974 TR6 CF13816U
Honolulu, HI
 
Ooops.... I was sure the gearbox slot was at the 6 o'clock position. I guess my memory failed me. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif Tinster just make sure that slot in the nose piece the gasket and the gearbox all line up. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
Thanks Jeff,

I just took a close look at the gasket and also inside
the tranny. You are correct. There is a small cutout
in the gasket and a hole of somesort at 9:00 in the tranny.
Now I know for sure. So small i might have missed the hole.

thanks D
 
To Gurus Shawn, Paul, Bill, Alan, Ben et al:

A not so good update on the Crypt Car.

I moved Crypty into the rental space at the funeral
home so the car would be closer to the MG mechanic who promised to "assist" me with changing the clutch.

I was to provide all the labor and parts and for $600.
he would install the actual clutch plate, hook up the hydraulic slave cyl, bleed the system and put the starter
motor back in. I paid the $600.

That was over three weeks ago and now he says he has
no time to assist or anything and cannot predict when
he might. No refund coming my way either. No written contract.

meanwhile I have gutted the car, tranny out and in pieces,
seats out, driveshaft out , carpet ripped out, hydraulics
disconneced and hanging-- car on 4 jack stands.

I am making arrangement to have Crypty flatbedded back
to my garage-the Crypt.

Now here is my question to you guru mechanics. I know
you are all willing and able to walk me step by step,
bolt by bolt thru the process clutch/tranny install to
get Crypty back together.

Since together, we finally got Crypty's engine mostly
fairly operational and mostly reliable for 1/2 hour at a time; I believe the clutch change out will have Crypty
rolling down the highway. I mean, haven't I already
replaced all the major components except the clutch?

So, since I am now all on my lonesome for this clutch/tranny
project, do you wise mechanical gurus want to complete the
Crypt with me here on the forum to share knowledge,
or by private e-mail so as not to take up valuable forum
space?

Or Crypty could just get hauled to The Crusher. Worthless
with no tranny or clutch.

Let me know what you experts think! If we do this on the
forum I will post many photos so others like me can learn the procedures.

Thanks as always.

d
 
Here's my take on all of this...

I know for a fact Dale, that you can and will complete this clutch installation project by yourself. But, what I've noticed through out all of these proceedings is that there is so much well intentioned advice given, that much of it gets lost and that the actual procedures and what to look for when doing a job on crypty gets all muddied up and many more problems seem to develope then what's really there.

I really think that one or two of the members that have done this job, maybe several times, correspond with you via private message and/or e-mail. I really think that this is one situation where too many cooks can spoil the broth. Perhaps we can come up with a couple of volunteers that know this job inside and out.

I know that at least one poster has cited a link to doing the job, and that should be gone over very carefully before you proceed. At that point, you can address your questions to the selected individuals. Then you can proceed in a less helter-skelter manner with less stress and worry about reading a ton of stuff that may or may not apply.

I want to see you get this job done and get crypty on the road, but it's going to take a no-nonsense approach, and I think that too many opinions will cloud what needs to be done.

Edit: What's holding up the back of the engine now that the tranny is out?? If you're going to move it, you will have to deal with that issue.
 
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